destination: navel

[nekokoban]

[ROLLS AROUND]

Uwahhhhh time for some self-indulgent navel-gazing of the RP variety. People who are fed up with this particular hobby of mine or have no interest are totally encouraged to skip this cut, as it's a lot of me repeating myself and kind of whining in circles. |D I will not fool myself in thinking everyone will, but for those who do, I -- apologize. I hope you will be patient with me.

Okay, so. I am a defensive person. I always have been, even when I know I shouldn't be and I don't want to be -- because mainly, I am terrified of being an inconvenience/a bother/annoying to people. I know, I know, THEN WHY AM I ON THE INTERNET. The good outbalances the bad in that aspect. I don't want to step on toes, though if I have to be direct and honest, I will. But I will also try to avoid that, as long as I can, simply because -- I don't want other people to stop doing something they enjoy just for one person (me).

The problem then arises when the reverse happens to me. Soundbite history is that I play Hakuren Oak from 07-Ghost (a priest) over at campfuckudie, who is currently involved in a relationship with Devit of D.Gray-man, and ... well! LET'S TALK ABOUT POLAR OPPOSITES OF GOALS AND VALUES GUYS, I THINK WE KNOW IT. And I will not deny that some of the crits I have received are legitimate questions -- I have tried to answer these as best as I can, but I'm not nearly as eloquent or verbose as enough_space is; I always forget and leave things out of essays when I try to write them, and THEN I forget to go back and edit them in.

ON THE ONE HAND, we had a negative-ish (along the lines of "I am so tired of these two :|") secret made about us ... last month? Ish. At which point we tried to scale back things -- while there were some very nice people who came to our defense, there were some issues that could be addressed! For my part, I tried to cut back on threads Hakuren had with Devit, and on how much he even actually mentioned it to ... anyone who didn't already know about it. Looking at my collected thread list, I think I achieved that -- but. This month we recieved several more along the lines of "why is this even happening" and this makes me ... kind of sad, really. Hakuren is my favorite character of his canon, and I don't want to be playing him OOC; during play, all of his developments felt like the natural progression of what he'd do/what he'd think when faced with a situation. It didn't go the way I expected, and now it's this.

Part of me worries. Did I just do this because I wanted to on some level, did I twist him ooc for that? I don't really feel like I did; I know we both argued against shipping them for a long time, and finally just ... gave up on it, because that's what the characters seemed headed for anyway.

And again, part of me is selfishly defensive/worried -- I'm having a lot of fun playing the pairing. It is totally a blast and been actually good for the character, imo: it's expanding his narrow worldview, it's giving him someone OTHER than Teito to focus/worry about, and he's actually made a lot of friends/been protected indirectly by this. A-at the same time, I ... don't want to become one of those "oh god, not them again" things; I don't want to be making the game UNfun for anyone else! Because that totally defeats the point of pretendy fun games in a group -- everyone is supposed to enjoy themselves! If someone (or a group of people, as it seems to be) are unhappy ... what then? I'd be uncomfortable to find a whole mass of seething playerbase irritation behind our backs.

This is because, selfishly, I don't want to break this pairing up -- it is fun and interesting for me, and Devit-mun is a hilariously fun person to chat with/dork around about our characters with; it has been and continues to be a blast. But I don't want to take away that fun from others -- so. Where is the balance? Is there a balance? What is my happy medium, and where do I get there and stay there?

... fwah fwah fwah.

Comments

[harukami]

Personally, I have fun when I see other people having fun.

[nekokoban]

--I FEEL LIKE I JUST HIT POST ON THIS WHAT

Hi Haru. ._.a

[flyingteapot.livejournal.com]

This.

[carrythelight.livejournal.com]

I think, when it comes down to it: If you are having fun, and it's... not OOC and you have played it out as a RELATIONSHIP and not just a HEY LET'S MAKE THEM MAKE OUT! Then.

THEY ARE YOUR CHARACTERS. Fuck all if random anonymice who don't have the courage to talk to you personally are "tired" of it.

YOU ARE NOT PLAYING FOR THEM.

[nekokoban]

S-sob INTELLECTUALLY I KNOW THIS, emotionally I am sometimes like a piece of tissue paper that crumples and blows away in a strong wind. WE TRIED TO PLAY THE WHOLE THING OUT sob I think like a good quarter at least of Hakuren's comments are from threads for this.

Thank you, Gwen. ;;b

[katmaxwell.livejournal.com]

I think at the end of the day people who whine about pairings in RP are kind of hilarious. I mean. They're whining. About pairings in RP. Which granted doesn't make you feel any better when they do throw a hissyfit over it; but I think the vast quantity of players either A) like it, B) aren't bothered by it, or C) don't care either way.

Thinking about the "crit" you've received -- just from what you've represented here -- it also seems like people aren't questioning your ICness? But are instead complaining about how often you guys play off of each other? Granted, I don't know all of the threads, but. I DON'T KNOW just don't feel baaaaad. ♥

[nekokoban]

WELL TO BE FAIR the last crit was a matter of IC issues! B-but the person also said they wouldn't reply any more, so I have no idea if my explanations would satisfy their crits? I HOPE IT DID. I don't know though.

I AM FEELING BETTER NOW I-I just. Again, have that issue of "I'M MAKING THINGS BAD FOR OTHER PEOPLE?! D:" which is kind of melodramatic but sob that is the kneejerk reaction. ._.b

♥

[tsktsk-urgod.livejournal.com]

It's easy to say do what makes you happy, and ignore the heat for it. . . So, I won't say that. Sometimes, certain relationships do make my eyebrow quirk and I have to wonder how it came about. Devit and Hakuren's definitely made me do that, but I decide to leave it be like I do with any other relationship that does that. Simply, I know that you play the character and these things do happen. You're not intentionally being OOC, and another Hakuren somewhere else with another Devit may not bring about the same relationship, but it's just that chance that pops up in play. It's all chance, in the end. I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is that things that happen just happen, and you and the others should accept that in a way.

. . . Okay, I have no idea what I just said. It's hard to communicate this feeling, but I support you. Yes.

[nekokoban]

No, no, it makes sense, and IT IS TOTALLY FAIR because if you just step back it really becomes a sort of, "oh well, CFUD's Hakuren and Devit are together--WHAT?!" and I admit it. XD Like, I don't think that if you took our characters, still played by us, and dropped them into another game brand-new, that they'd end up like this again, I really don't. BUT FOR THIS GAME THEY DID and it makes me happy. ;^;

But thank you, hon, I appreciate it. :|b

[sleepfighter.livejournal.com]

I think, above all else, you shouldn't break something up because of outside pressure. Because at the end of the day, happy funtime pretendy characters you play on the Internets are for your amusement. Other people gaining amusement is a pleasant bonus, but that's really what it is. Eh. SHUTTING UP NOW I BASICALLY AGREE WITH HARU.

[nekokoban]

NO IT'S COOL SIR, really, the ones I would worry about the most are you guys in the collective casts; I don't want to make you guys feel like you have to accomodate us or cater to our wants or anything like that. D8

Sob, I'm such a wuss sometimes. XD;

[inarticulate.livejournal.com]

That's always going to be a problem with cross-canon pairings, I think, is that other people are going to look at them and go "what the fuck this would never work." But the thing is, they don't have the threads that you guys have and the knowledge of exactly how it happened and aren't playing the characters. CFUD is big enough that it's practically impossible to read every thread a character has ever, PLUS there's always going to be different interpretations of character.

Me, I think it's kind of irresponsible to give someone crit and then say you won't reply-- because the whole point of crit is to help someone get better, not to go I THINK THIS IS OOC KAY BYE. There's no way for the player to know if they've addressed the concerns through essay or through play, and the player is then forced to play with the additional burden of "SOMEONE THINKS I AM DOING IT WRONG AND I DON'T KNOW IF THEY STILL DO." And that? Sucks.

Which is not to say IGNORE THEM. But I think you and Devit both did what you could to respond to the crit coherently and in a very rational manner, and if they're not going to help you out by giving more guidance to their concerns… what else CAN you do? Try to have fun with it-- in the end, it's ROLEPLAYING FICTIONAL CHARACTERS ON THE INTERNET. You shouldn't stop playing with someone just because someone else on the internet doesn't agree with your interpretation. Do what you can to have fun-- that's why anyone RPs in the first place, right?

[nekokoban]

I have been TRYING to be good about keeping my thread logs up to date, but. My memory being what it is, I know there are certainly ones I've forgotten -- and with a primary like Hakuren, just going by sheer numbers, I've probably lost more of his than anyone else's. *wg*

That is admittedly part of what's worrying me with the crit we recieved; I tried to address the person's concerns (which I do think were legit! and they had a right to ask!), I just ... wish I knew if my explanations were enough. :x I wouldn't mind if it wasn't, though it would mean having to consider what I'm doing to see if there's any way to improve on that.

I AM DOING THIS FOR FUN, I just. Don't want to ruin anyone else's fun! WHICH IS PART OF THIS PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE aughhhhh you guys are fantastic for putting up with me whining. ._.

[stigmatize.livejournal.com]

I don't actually RP at cfud anymore, but when I did and was following more closely, I ... never saw that problem? FRANKLY IT JUST SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE LIKES PISSING IN CHEERIOS, so you should go eat lucky charms instead.

... yeah i should really have breakfast before making comments.

[nekokoban]

... I do like Lucky Charms.

H-hopefully this is something that can get resolved, I WILL DO MY BEST.

[wakuchan.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I've been sort of stalking Hakuren and Devit since like...idk June, and while I'm not as familiar with the characters as some (I've read both series, but not more than once) I've never thought it was OOC - it seemed like a pretty natural progression to me. (Also, selfishly, I love reading their threads, so.)

Otherwise, I think in the end it's what everyone else is saying - it's your character and your interpretation, so yeah! (that said, I know what you mean - I live in fear of the day that people realize I'm screwing up, ahaha *facepalm*)

[nekokoban]

akljeoirah;r ./////. w-what really SOB I AM SO GLAD TO HEAR THAT ♥;;; Part of my dilemna is "I don't want to play my favorite character ooc" versus "BUT I LOVE PLAYING THIS PAIRING SOB."

I wish I could have stayed under the radar, sob. I'm actually very okay with being a blip on the RP crowd, I really really am. ._.b

[kawaiigami.livejournal.com]

*raises hand timidly* May I be a bit nosy here and join in on the discussion even if I'm not terribly familiar with CFUD? I'm not an RPer, but I do have some thoughts in IC/OOC from reading and writing fic.

From what I've seen, what's IC for any character differs (sometimes vastly) from person to person. I tend to be pretty lenient on what I'll call IC--though I will admit where I'm not getting an author's logic or just can't see the character acting like that. OOC =/= any portrayal of them that runs counter to my opinion. And hey, if the author is having fun (and I think one can always tell when the author really had fun writing a piece rather than just trying to pander), far be it from me to spoil it by raining on their parade. I...I do mourn the fact that KH fanon often doesn't mesh with what I think. ;_;

That said, when I write it's very difficult to kill the "but how will this be received?" voice nagging at me. Because part of the fun of writing is sharing what you write, and not only is it disappointing to get few or no reviews, the idea that someone would read something I wrote and end up disliking it makes me feel bad. On some level I feel like I've inconvenienced them if that happens, and such is never my intention. :/ People have been kind so far, but I live in fear of being flamed.

I think what I'm trying to say here is I think I know how you feel. *hugs* I agree with the others that have said that even worrying about this indicates that you're doing a good job. CFUD is big enough to skim over things that one doesn't find interesting, which means that anyone complaining quite possibly is just looking for something to be annoyed about.

[nekokoban]

See, I think there is kind of a line between what flies in fic and what flies in RP -- especially in CFUD's format of dialogue-interaction, and not so much logs/writing out what the character is thinking and their motivations. I know what logic I'm using to have a character react! But that's not necessarily something that anyone just reading the thread is going to see. Which means I really should be trying hard to make it obvious in actions/words, and I have, but ... maybe not enough?

E-even if it is someone who's looking for things to nitpick, though, I think they deserve a fair consideration on their points, which -- as I have said many times -- are legit. AS I SAID ABOVE, in my magical happy fantasy land this would never be a problem, and everything would work out so everyone is happy. Someday, man, someday. :(

[uminohikari.livejournal.com]

RP drama just confuses me >> Live and let live! As long as you're having fun..

[nekokoban]

I AM HAVING FUN.

I just. Also worry a lot. Sob. XD

[shiramane.livejournal.com]

ftr, I stalked your threads with Devit pretty much since the beginning (l-lol favorite DGM character + favorite 07-Ghost character) and it seemed a pretty natural progression to me!

...also on the more selfish side of things the threads are all adorable and if I weren't so lazy I'd be drawing them like. all the time. ;;

[nekokoban]

;;b I-I'm glad that you think that, at least! It's a relief to know that at least some people are enjoying the pairing that we have all this fun playing. |D;;

YOUR REGULAR GEN ART IS ADORABLE TOO. I encourage all art, not just thread-related ones, okay. >:

[vianusmiho.livejournal.com]

A lot of people have already said what I want to say - your characters, your characterization. Everyone has different interpretation of a character, and the way things play out can be drastically different even if it is the same character played by the same person using the same characterization. There are different versions of the same character out there, all IC but different, and I appreciate them all because well, damn, they're obviously enjoying themselves and doing a brilliant job at role-playing etc. I'm in no way coherent enough to write down more in-depth stuff or to think too too deeply and I apologize for that ;;b BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY it's a fun pretendy game and as long as you're enjoying yourself (and I know you are!) and you're not doing evil things with your rp like HELPING GLOBAL WARMING or PIRATING WITH PIRATES etc... Idk. It's 5:30 and I'm no coherent. BASICALLY I agree with people and am useless with nothing else to add.

Here, ilu:


INSERT YOUR OWN CAPTION

[nekokoban]

N-no, like I told Miyako above -- I sincerely doubt that even if Devit and I took our characters to a brand-new RP restarted from their respective points in canon, that this would happen again. What happened within CFUD was a lot of circumstances and hours of play/long threads that just kind of ultimately. Happened. And I don't think it could be replicated, nor would I necessarily want to, if I ever played Hakuren in another RP. IT HAPPENED IN CFUD, I AM HAPPY WITH IT AT CFUD, but lordy it would not be something I'd take elsewhere if I moved around.


And anything else I meant to say was effectively derailed by that picture. M-miho wth Ilu ♥

[kadekmoment.livejournal.com]

BASICALLY WHAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS SAID I-I can't really say much more without beating a dead horse. But I'm here for ♥

[nekokoban]

I approve of ♥, I love ♥! :D

Mostly I'm relieved that I'm. Apparently not totally doing it wrong, at least in how I'm reacting? I THINK THIS IS MY FIRST MAJOR RP CRIT sob go me. \o/

[vulchu.livejournal.com]

I totally missed whatever happened. But I feel this is necessary

♥

[nekokoban]

IT WASN'T ANYTHING TOO HUGE, just -- a sort of moment of disconnect and reevaluation and people also kicking my ass now and then. >:

♥ to you too. :D

[ningen-demonai.livejournal.com]

Diiiitto what everyone said, including the big heart from Nix. Personally, I like the development between the two characters and if you're having fun and believe that it isn't OOC, then go for it. :]

[nekokoban]

Thank you, Nin. >: I AM HAVING FUN, which is something I have to remember -- even as I get temporarily bogged down in worrying and wondering and theorizing how to fix/change things, it doesn't change the fact that I am enjoying myself! And I am trying to stay IC within what I'm working with.

So. I-I am working on feeling better and then on to trying and fixing things, yay. \o/

♥

[mitbix]

... You know, I've been in the situation where I've made doubletakes over RP pairings, mostly from skimming IC Secrets or other RPs, but then I realise that it's not like I've been following the characters religiously. So I might think a pairing's interaction is OOC, but I wouldn't know all the threads and time that have been put into the resulting relationship.

What it comes down to is "don't worry so much", I guess? ♥

[nekokoban]

I WILL READILY ADMIT THAT THIS PAIRING IS A DOUBLETAKER. M-maybe even a triple-taker. Gods and fishes know we didn't really expect it either. But we tried to keep things IC, we worked with what we have ... and there are still legit reasons here WHICH WE CAN WORK ON but. I-it's still fun.

I will also try to stop worrying. |< WHICH IS HARD FOR ME TO DO, I am a natural-born worrier, BUT. ♥♥

[therikkster.livejournal.com]

These things happen in multifandom games, hell, developing relationships with characters from other fandoms AND having fun with it is the point of multifandom games. I know I doubletaked at seeing it, but I just assumed it was one of those lovely, odd relationships that come naturally from playing- One of the more interesting ones, from someone who reads D.grayman and 07 ghost. If you are having a blast, don't let the anonymice get you down.

In short:

[Hugs and support]

[nekokoban]

See, that's the thing! I know we were originally discussing the idea of Hakuren (IF he were to hook up at all, which was sort of up in the air) to remain within his cast -- and then stuff developed outside and elsewhere and IT BECAME THIS. B-but man we both acknowledge that at first (and second, and third-fourth-nth) glance, it's a strange one! We just have fun with it. ._.a

[snuggles] Thank you, hon. ♥

[chibimazoku.livejournal.com]

I agree with the whole "people are always going to have issues with multi-canon relationships" which is sort of silly, since it's a multi-fandom game. And, yeah, it's HARDER to understand those relationships, since they usually develop in multiple threads and you can't just point to canon to say WELL BECAUSE OF XXX THIS WORKS. But, you know, I feel like if you're mostly IC (since none of us are ever 100% IC or can be) in other situations, then it stands to reason the relationship will have developed ICly as well.

I guess what I'm rambling about is: I play Katou. Katou has many very close relationships with people outside his canon. For example, he lets Ahiru from PTutu call him "mommy." I'm sure this looks very funny to outsiders and they might think I'm OOC for it. But the fact of the matter is that Ahiru and Katou's relationship built up over time and it makes sense to the players involved.

And I think it's the same with Devit and Hakuren. You two didn't just decide LOL LET'S HAVE THEM SEXXOR. The relationship developed. You two have both gone into a lot of detail about how. And besides that, you've bent over backwards to explain your reasoning to people who have critted you.

It's easy to say don't worry. It's harder to follow that advice. However, I think any RPer in a multifandom game is going to have relationships that outsiders might not understand. That's okay. I think you're just getting the brunt of it because you both play from popular canons and have active characters.

IN CONCLUSION: I RAMBLE A LOT AND JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU HUGS ♥

[nekokoban]

I mean, like! This is my first major game and my first legitimate piece of crit (m-most of the time it's praise, which is nice! but I'm glad to have gotten this and heard it), and ... okay, I'll be honest, I am wigging a liiiittle over it. I AM ALLOWING MYSELF THIS and then hopefully I will toughen up and go onnnnn. Uh.

No, and that's the funny thing -- we both had people telling us they shipped Hakuren and Devit before we did; I know I have logs where someone was like "lol I ship them" and I was all "WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT! THAT'S NOT OKAY!" and then it kind of ... happened along the way? AND NOW I HAVE FUN WITH IT, I'M DOOMED.

I LIKE HUGS, I WILL NEVER EVER SAY NO TO HUGS, th-thank you for this. I mean, everyone's been really nice and understanding and I'm like WAH ;o; --I don't necessarily need pettings, but it's nice to know that. I'm not the only one who worries and has a hard time doing the "don't worry about it" thing. Hahaha sob.

♥♥♥

[pukjie.livejournal.com]

Everyone has already said everything I want to say! So.

All I can really say is that stalking watching Hakuren and Devit has A)Increased my interest in the Noah in general and the Bonds specifically B)Is the reason I know what 07-Ghost is. (I would probably have have found out what it was eventually, but that's how it worked out in this timestream.) C)Has filled my life with joy ♥ and stalking.

♥♥♥

[nekokoban]

S-sob more stalkers HI I'm glad you've been enjoying following our threads. They're such fun to play. ;o; I HOPE WE REMAIN INTERESTING IN THE FUTURE \o/ and I'm really just. Happy that there are people out there also having fun with it.

So thank you. ♥

[teleute12.livejournal.com]

So I can't give much advice about crit or people thinking you're OOC, and everyone's already covered those anyway. But I CAN say that I've been following Hakuren and Devit's threads since before they hooked up, and the relationship and how it's progressed has always felt natural and believable to me. Plus their threads are really fun to read, you know, there's always something interesting going on! (Even if it's just tsuntsun and fail - ESPECIALLY IF, 'cause that's funny and adorable.) So... keep that in mind, next time you're worried about the faceless masses you might or might not be bothering - for every one of them, there's surely at least one person like me. (AND DON'T DISCOUNT YOUR OWN THOUGHTS, EITHER, YOU COUNT FOR DOUBLE.) ♥

[nekokoban]

Sob they're so incredibly tsuntsun+fail, both of them. :( I love it.

But uwahhhh, I'm glad that other people have been enjoying their threads. |D It's been incredibly fun for me -- and it's just really nice to know that at least some people are enjoying it. \o/

Thanks, hon. ♥ I FEEL MUCH BETTER NOW, SERIOUSLY.

[bromantic.livejournal.com]

Do what makes you happy ♥

AND I SUCK AT SAYING ANYTHING ELSE but honestly. Your character, your relationship :|

[nekokoban]

I AM, I AM.

I just don't want to be playing him ooc, he is my favorite. :(

[jpegasus.livejournal.com]

[hugs] I'd just like to say I'm really proud of both of you for how you deal with your crits -- even if they do make you feel small and wobbly, you're fantastic at listening and explaining and being open to further discussion. I think honestly that's the most people should be able to ask of you -- it's an online game, and you're not getting paid, so the idea that you should change your play based on the whims of a stranger are...uh.

I'm not familiar with either canon (well, DGM, but not far enough to get to Devit), but I think that so long as you can trace their actions back through a series of "this is where this happened" interactions that were IC for the character as you play them in camp, there isn't a problem. I mean, okay, maybe it's something they'd never do in canon, but there are A LOT of things in camp they'd never do, think about, hear about, even know about in their own canon, and likewise, the conditions from their canons can be absent in camp. So.

Blah blah blah I think you're awesome [huggins]

[nekokoban]

[snuggles] uwahhhhhh -- I actually feel a lot better, having made this post and gotten my whine out. XD I do want to be open and receptive to crit! But there is still a part of me that goes D: and feels bad that something I've been enjoying ... bothers other people? I mean, yes, there are things I can and will change, but -- there are also things I won't, because this is also my pretendy funtimes and this is part of it!

... hilariously, the English translation kind of. Changes some very key things, but. I FOR ONE really like how Devit's played in CFUD, and I enjoyed it before my character got involved! So. The awesome thing about camp (or panfandom RPs in general!) is the flexibility and freedom for things that could not happen otherwise in canon to occur! (I know we've talked about this before.)

But. Yeah. I just needed to roll around a bit and whine. Thank you, Kiwi. ♥