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FIRST OF ALL, A PIMP! For the record, I do not actually ship the Medicine Seller with anyone. To me, he's a completely asexual being, though I'll write anything at least once -- maybe twice, if interested. *g* However, there is this song:
The Hush Sound - Medicine Man
that is, for me, a Kayo-->Medicine Seller song. It is also super-catchy and I can hear Chira laughing at me all the way over here. :|b
Now, the actual post! This is something I have nattered about before, multiple times, but then this post by Laylah (over on IJ) got me thinking about it again -- that, and the fact that I had this emo spat over the weekend which is gone now, like DUUuuUUUuSSST in the WIIIiIIIiinnnnd-- don't make me sing, guys, you'll regret it forever and ever. :(
But more seriously, what Laylah was talking about is something I've seen before -- granted, not in the same context as her -- her creative writing classes -- mooooostly because. Well. I took only one creative writing class, and that was back in high school a-and I realized that, um. Most of the people were taking it for an easy grade (our teacher was a super-sweet woman, but prone to be overly-forgiving of deadlines and the like), or were the sort of Arteests that I can't stand. What I do have is roughly twelve years (?!?!?!) of active-ish participation on the internet and fandoms, though less now than when I first started out. And it's really not unusual, sadly, to see people declare that things must have ANGST and ANNNNGST and YET MORE ANGST in order to be "deep" or "meaningful" or -- and I think this is the worst bullshit of all -- be "worthy writing."
This isn't to say that I think dark/angsty things don't have redeeming value -- sometimes, a story just needs to be dark. There are times when that's just how the cards fall, and that's awesome! But that doesn't make it any more artistic or a better read than a happy story -- a comedy has just as much potential to be poignant and touching and move you as much as a tragedy. (Perhaps not the modern slapstick comedy so much, no, but hell, much as I hate the genre, that's part of the appeal of "romantic comedies," isn't it?)
However, I think I'd expand that -- and I'll make a confession:
I really don't like "tragically noble" types.
Nine times out of ten, noble suffering gets my hackles up and just ... irritates me. Stop me if you've heard this story -- someone is wrongly accused of HORRIBLE TERRIBLE THINGS!1! and is punished for them, but believes THEY DESERVE THIS PUNISHMENT!1!!! because somewhere along the way, they've at least partly internalized the world's finger-pointing, and now they have TRAGIC NOBLE ANGST as they struggle valiantly to NOT LET HISTORY'S MISTAKES REPEAT THEMSEEEEEEELVES!
I just. I can't. Oh my god, when I run into characters like that, I want to whack them on the back and say CHEER UP EMO KID because-- well. That's kind of what Noble Tragics do to me. This is not to say I dislike them all, because I believe there are exceptions to every rule, but as a general whole? No thank you.
That's not to say my favorite sort of angsty character -- I am super-super weak the smiling "I've got a secret" ones who play their parts as tricksters and jokesters and yet have terrible, terrible backstory (cough cough gee, I wonder who in my current fandom(s) are like that :p) -- aren't irritating, either. But the thing is, I like that element of lightness and comedy to a character. Even if it's ultimately a charade -- though with my favorites, I would argue it's NOT -- it feels, to me, like they have more depth than your Noble Tragic or your Quiet Brooder. The Fake Smile has at least two notes to their personality, even if you don't see the second note till it's almost too late.
And honestly, guys, what is UP with hating on characters just because they're happy? Why is a character shallow if he/she is outgoing and upbeat and prefers a smile over a frown? Why are they seen as idiots compared to their angstier companions? (I mean, all right, the general rule in fiction is that happier characters might not be as bright academically, but they tend to have very good instincts emotionally -- and normally they have some pretty insightful views/beliefs on human nature and the heart. AND EVEN THEN, that's not always the case; there are plenty of happy characters who're academically smart as well.)
Just. I don't know, I can't speak for the world as a whole, but for myself? I actually feel a lot more satisfied with a happy ending than a tragic one -- I find a story that ends with hope infinitely preferable to the downward spiral finally hitting rock-bottom. I think that's why characters matter so much to me -- I will forgive a weaker plot if characters are awesome, but an awesome plot with lukewarm charactersor even a wannabe awesome plot insert rant about certain games that anyone who's actually talked to me know what I mean usually loses my interest super-fast.
I have to like your characters before their tragedies mean anything to me -- and I grow to care about characters by seeing their joys.
Part of it is that, like I said in my comment to Laylah, fiction isn't all escapism for me. Or more accurately, storytelling isn't escapism: I do it all the time. "There was this thing that happened to me and a friend," or "I'd heard that this was--" or "oh man, I just got back from [xx]." And my life, guys, is not all tragedy and woe -- it's not even a LITTLE tragedy and woe. Most of my angst comes from internal sources, rather than the world dropkicking me like a game of hackeysack.
There are so many little joys in life. Missing out on that is a terrible thing, imo.
TL;DR version: I think angsty characters are actually more shallow and one-dimensional than happy ones. It is so easy to find something to be sad about, guys. There are times where the stronger person is the one who looks past the grim and the dirt and ugly twisted sadnesses and sees the beautiful underneath.
Next time, I think I might awaken on a bandwagon and do that not-quite-a-question-meme that![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
mackzazzle started. :|b
The Hush Sound - Medicine Man
that is, for me, a Kayo-->Medicine Seller song. It is also super-catchy and I can hear Chira laughing at me all the way over here. :|b
Now, the actual post! This is something I have nattered about before, multiple times, but then this post by Laylah (over on IJ) got me thinking about it again -- that, and the fact that I had this emo spat over the weekend which is gone now, like DUUuuUUUuSSST in the WIIIiIIIiinnnnd-- don't make me sing, guys, you'll regret it forever and ever. :(
But more seriously, what Laylah was talking about is something I've seen before -- granted, not in the same context as her -- her creative writing classes -- mooooostly because. Well. I took only one creative writing class, and that was back in high school a-and I realized that, um. Most of the people were taking it for an easy grade (our teacher was a super-sweet woman, but prone to be overly-forgiving of deadlines and the like), or were the sort of Arteests that I can't stand. What I do have is roughly twelve years (?!?!?!) of active-ish participation on the internet and fandoms, though less now than when I first started out. And it's really not unusual, sadly, to see people declare that things must have ANGST and ANNNNGST and YET MORE ANGST in order to be "deep" or "meaningful" or -- and I think this is the worst bullshit of all -- be "worthy writing."
This isn't to say that I think dark/angsty things don't have redeeming value -- sometimes, a story just needs to be dark. There are times when that's just how the cards fall, and that's awesome! But that doesn't make it any more artistic or a better read than a happy story -- a comedy has just as much potential to be poignant and touching and move you as much as a tragedy. (Perhaps not the modern slapstick comedy so much, no, but hell, much as I hate the genre, that's part of the appeal of "romantic comedies," isn't it?)
However, I think I'd expand that -- and I'll make a confession:
I really don't like "tragically noble" types.
Nine times out of ten, noble suffering gets my hackles up and just ... irritates me. Stop me if you've heard this story -- someone is wrongly accused of HORRIBLE TERRIBLE THINGS!1! and is punished for them, but believes THEY DESERVE THIS PUNISHMENT!1!!! because somewhere along the way, they've at least partly internalized the world's finger-pointing, and now they have TRAGIC NOBLE ANGST as they struggle valiantly to NOT LET HISTORY'S MISTAKES REPEAT THEMSEEEEEEELVES!
I just. I can't. Oh my god, when I run into characters like that, I want to whack them on the back and say CHEER UP EMO KID because-- well. That's kind of what Noble Tragics do to me. This is not to say I dislike them all, because I believe there are exceptions to every rule, but as a general whole? No thank you.
That's not to say my favorite sort of angsty character -- I am super-super weak the smiling "I've got a secret" ones who play their parts as tricksters and jokesters and yet have terrible, terrible backstory (cough cough gee, I wonder who in my current fandom(s) are like that :p) -- aren't irritating, either. But the thing is, I like that element of lightness and comedy to a character. Even if it's ultimately a charade -- though with my favorites, I would argue it's NOT -- it feels, to me, like they have more depth than your Noble Tragic or your Quiet Brooder. The Fake Smile has at least two notes to their personality, even if you don't see the second note till it's almost too late.
And honestly, guys, what is UP with hating on characters just because they're happy? Why is a character shallow if he/she is outgoing and upbeat and prefers a smile over a frown? Why are they seen as idiots compared to their angstier companions? (I mean, all right, the general rule in fiction is that happier characters might not be as bright academically, but they tend to have very good instincts emotionally -- and normally they have some pretty insightful views/beliefs on human nature and the heart. AND EVEN THEN, that's not always the case; there are plenty of happy characters who're academically smart as well.)
Just. I don't know, I can't speak for the world as a whole, but for myself? I actually feel a lot more satisfied with a happy ending than a tragic one -- I find a story that ends with hope infinitely preferable to the downward spiral finally hitting rock-bottom. I think that's why characters matter so much to me -- I will forgive a weaker plot if characters are awesome, but an awesome plot with lukewarm characters
I have to like your characters before their tragedies mean anything to me -- and I grow to care about characters by seeing their joys.
Part of it is that, like I said in my comment to Laylah, fiction isn't all escapism for me. Or more accurately, storytelling isn't escapism: I do it all the time. "There was this thing that happened to me and a friend," or "I'd heard that this was--" or "oh man, I just got back from [xx]." And my life, guys, is not all tragedy and woe -- it's not even a LITTLE tragedy and woe. Most of my angst comes from internal sources, rather than the world dropkicking me like a game of hackeysack.
There are so many little joys in life. Missing out on that is a terrible thing, imo.
TL;DR version: I think angsty characters are actually more shallow and one-dimensional than happy ones. It is so easy to find something to be sad about, guys. There are times where the stronger person is the one who looks past the grim and the dirt and ugly twisted sadnesses and sees the beautiful underneath.
Next time, I think I might awaken on a bandwagon and do that not-quite-a-question-meme that
mackzazzle started. :|bTags:
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From:
no subject
Oh man, for the characters I can forgive a lot, but I don't necessarily equate a weak ending with an open ending, since an open ending can be very strong when done right (problem is, a lot of the time it's used due to the fact the writers couldn't really come up with an actual ending). But there have been series where I have LOVED and a very badly executed ending left such a sour taste in my mouth that eventually spoils everything that came before it (like the FMA anime, oh boy the FMA anime)
I LIKE HEARING YOU TALK WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. And I like happier and funny things too. I mean, I don't mind tragedy, I love it when executed just right really, but given a choice I think it's the bigger challenge to make something poignant without drenching it in angst, which is so incredibly easy to do in comparison.
From:
no subject
like, the beginning is great! And cool! And wow!
and then the end just...like...you start taking shots every time something so ridiculously stupid happens >->
From:
no subject
It was a weird sort of torture, the animation was fucking gorgeous but IT WAS BEING WASTED ON THE STORY IT WAS TURNING INTO. orz
I just stick with the manga.
From:
no subject
but then they stop being there and I rapidly lose interest.
the beginning managed to hold my attention without those characters!
From:
no subject
The beginning was *awesome* and very well played. It's when they just abandoned the manga storyline did it stop being awesome.
From:
no subject
... okay, true, I will give you the point for the FMA anime. I only saw it once, compared to the multiple times I saw the beginning/middle, though, so I can barely remember it while still remembering the HAY AWESOME of the start. XD
I TALK SO MUCH THOUGH WHY DON'T YOU EVER TELL ME TO STOP. :| And I mean, if a tragedy is pulled off well, I think that is awesome, seriously, but ... I feel like I am super-picky about the sort of tragedies I would deem "successful." Convince meeeeee, creators! CONVINCE ME. :
From:
no subject
The FMA anime started out SO GOOD--and then it abandoned the manga *completely* and what resulted was.... not very good. Very pretty (GOD was it pretty) but... no, not very good XD But that's what I mean about how a shoddy ending can essentially ruin a series for me. It doesn't happen often, but it happens.
BUT YOU TALK ABOUT THINGS I LIKE TO HEAR~~~ WHY WOULD I EVER STOP YOU~~ And I'm super picky too (BOY I am super picky), but essentially a way to turn me off from a tragedy is if you take it as ultimate srs bznss. Then I just move onto something else. I essentially need to pick up that the creator/writer/whatever needs to be able to be tongue-in-cheek or even know how to make fun of his/her series, even in a loose sense, for me to enjoy XD
From:
no subject
I -- okay, I can't remember specific details, but I KNOW there was stuff at the beginning of the anime that I prefered over how it happened in the manga. (I want to say the Nina storyline. But the Nina storyline was kind of horrifying no matter which version you read, so maybe I'm remembering it wrong. XD) I think it helped that by the time the FMA anime really started going haywire, I'd already begun moving on. XD
DARLING YOU FLATTER ME SO~~~~~ BUT SOMETIMES I DO TALK TOO MUCH~~~~ it's funny, I never think of myself as picky till things come up and I'm like, "no, don't really like that either." XD I have an easier time taking TRAGEDY IS SRS BZNSS if it develops within the story, rather than being the main focus or there at the beginning. (See also: freaking out at GetBackers and the "Ban's gonna disappear now k guys :|b" thing. XD)
I find a sense of humor so important, man. :\ Let's be happy, okay! \o/