FMA Pairing Rant. Sorta.

[nekokoban]

But first: OMFG BIO LAB WAS MORBIDLY COOL THIS WEEK. :D :D :D :D My partner ended up doing most of the dissection, but DUDE. The chick's heart still beats after it's been cut into three parts. DUDENESS.

Sometimes I picture myself being more of those creepy scientist-types that spends a lot of her time cackling on thunderstormy nights, complete with dramatic lighting for a backdrop and everything. But I will never be a doctor, because in the end, I'm too squicked by things IRL even if I find them fascinating on paper. Nyah.

And now! The really long pairing-rant PLUS some sniping about FMA pairings. :D;;;; Mirrored at my regular blog for saving. I hope. :D;;;

So, had a very interesting discussion these past two nights with Haru, on the nature of fandom and pairings. More specifically, it was me ranting about something that I'd come across in conversations with other people, her commiserating, and then the two of us shooting off like we're, I dunno, wannabe-academics or something. XD The rant also came from going through an LJ community, "Rabid Fans Suck." :D;;; Most of the complaints I've seen on that comm have to do, in some shape or fashion, with rabid fans of pairings, or crazynutters yaoi fans, but the latter ain't something I'm really gonna touch. >_>

It's also come up a few times at the FMA Comm, where pretty much every newbie these days makes SOME mention of what pairings they like. I'm not sure of the why of this; is it SO IMPORTANT to tell everyone that your OTP is A/B? ... then again, I'm not huge on intro-posts unless you've got something to offer when you do, like discussion or icons or art or fic, but--this could explain why I never get really involved with fandoms, these days. [shrugs] I find a pocket of people I get along with, and it pretty much seems fine, to me. ;;;;;;;;

Anyway. It's sort of come up once, and I'm positive it will reappear again soon, especially given the exponential way that the FMA fandom is growing--but, woo, pairing wars. WTF. So I'm biased, because this is a series I'm genuinely loving because of the PLOT, and the CHARACTERS and the WORLD, not the fact that A is drooling over B is in love with C is screwing D. In point of fact, my favorite relationship of the series is the brotherly love and dedication between Ed and Al, and EVERY OTHER RELATIONSHIP can go screw itself. Literally. :D;;;; (Okay, except for Hughes and his wife. Because they're SO CUTE it can never fail to make me sparkle at them. XD;)

For me, the main point of the series is to overcome your past mistakes, to move forward in spite of them and not repeat them. It's about the love between the Elric brothers as they try to regain their former selves, though certainly not at a cost that would doom them to repeat their mistakes. There's a real and involving PLOT, and it deserves to be noted and loved, damnit! >:E I mean, one of my own good friends, before she saw any of the series, saw a picture of Ed and Winry, and the first thing she asked me was, "Are they a couple yet?"

... and while I told her no, the question stuck with me, because really, it bugged me. @_x It seemed to be tossing aside all the lovely development and ordinary character interaction--Winry as Ed's mechanic/doctor, his childhood best friend, surrogate sister, and POSSIBLE girlfriend--just for the fact that they're cute together, and they happened to be a boy and a girl in close proximity. (I think it was that official picture of Winry adjusting Ed's arm, with Den and Al in the background.)

Now, anyone who's known me for a while and has watched me go through fandoms knows I'm a BIG FAN of the friendship thing. Maybe this will change with my experiences, but for now, I will wholeheartedly take the idea of a friend's love, a family member's devotion, over anything romantic. There are times where it seems to me that lovers get too tangled up with one another, blinded to the other's faults as well as their own, because they don't have that one step of separation that friends do. [shrugs] Tell me I'm wrong, fine, but I just known what I've seen.

But, yeah. Friendship is more important to me than romance, both in my life and in my fandoms. I don't think I'd sparkle half as madly over my personal favorite OTP (Ban/Ginji! ♥♥♥♥♥) even a fraction as much if it wasn't CLEARLY obvious that they're wonderful and stupid friends. They're dedicated to each other, which is good; they're practically MARRIED, with how much time they spend together doing things, and how devoted they are. But beyond that, we have a pair of wholehearted idiotic dorks who are just plain STUPID but overall HAPPY together. :X To apply my stupid anime metaphors, I'd take a Ban to my Ginji than a Tamahome to my Miaka any day. XD XD XD

So, in the end, the squabbling over FMA pairings, when it inevitably comes, is probably going to leave me with a tremendous headache and sadness for the fandom. You get a lot of these in any large fandom--I've seen it in Gundam Wing, in Digimon, and I've heard about the rabidity of Harry Potter fans from Merry, who's much more involved in that community than I've ever been. In the end, though (and this may get me blasted, but eh), I think FMA is probably the best story of the group, followed by Harry Potter, then Gundam Wing, then Digimon. Honestly, that's what I think.

But whatever your opinion is, take your favorite of the lot (if you even HAVE one), and then consider--why DID you love the series? Because of the plot? The characters? And if you loved the characters, was it because OMG A LURVES B OTP!!11? (Please, if you've gotten into a series just because you saw a "cute couple" in it, don't tell me. I may be forced to cry tears of blood and run away. XD) When I declare someone my favorite character, it's because I like this character AS THEY STAND ALONE, as well as how they relate to others, and that's far beyond the romantic sense. (... maybe this is just my bitterness towards the lingering ideal of how love should become EVERYTHING in a woman's your life, and that OMG LOVE HEALS ALL, when I'm cynical enough to believe there's no such thing as a universal panacea).

What I really hate is seeing when pairing-fen get SO rabid over their couple of choice that they start distorting the character to either make it work, or to maximize the angst. There's no need to villainize any "rivals" to your favorite pairing, unless they really ARE villains in the show--and generally speaking, that's never the case. You get your share of jerks and egotistical idiots and pushovers, but they're not EVIL. (For example, if any Sasuke/Sakura fans were to tell me that about Lee, I would fang and bite them hard, and degenerate into mindless shrieking because how can you THINK that of such a sweet guy? Think PAST the fact that he's not exactly beauty material or that he was able to beat down on Sasuke the first time they met.)

Or, when Sam got angsty over a mention that ep17 of FMA had Winry-->Ed cuteness. I mean, I know she labelled it her delusional mind talking, but the fact that she'd EVER consider that Al would leave Ed to "get out of the way" for Ed/Winry just flat-out boggled me. We're talking about a boy who grew up too fast, trapped in a body where he can't feel, and the only real connection he has to this world, the only thing that matters, is his brother. He didn't even leave Ed when he thought that Ed had simply "created" him, and doubted the reality of his memories.

I sincerely don't think that either of the Elric brothers would ever let something like romance get in the way of "them." o_o Should it ever come down to a choice between a lover and his brother, I have no doubts that there would even be a contest. Ed, at the age of ten, was willing to give up all his limbs AND his heart to retrieve his brother; that's not something one easily lets go of later in life.

(Also: where did people get the idea that segregating fandoms by het/yaoi/yuri would make things easier? Goddamnit, I'm a lazy brat, and I don't want to have to keep tabs on MORE separate communities just to get gen stories. >_> That's just my own griping, but damn, there's a reason I never go for any character-specific or genre-specific communities--it's because as a "general" comm, I sort of expect there to be a bit of everything, yes. XD;;;;)

Personally, I know very well my "pet" pairing of Roy/Ed is highly unlikely, and I don't expect it to EVER happen in canon. In fact, I'm vaguely annoyed when I see someone call it a 'ship, because, uh, it's not. XD;; It is to the extent of you can't interact so often without having some sort of relationship, but in the fanon sense of the word, I don't see it at all. Ed's too sharp, Roy's too cautious, and never shall the twain meet except for in the minds of fangirls.

--which is not to say I don't think they could WORK, and very very WELL, if they could get past that; I just don't see them doing that in canon. :D;;;; I'm not even talking the age gap that has people leery; I'm talking about basic personalities, where I think it would take SOME sort of dramatic catalyst to push them in the right direction. ("Right," of course, being entirely subjective. *snrk*)

When you come down to it, Hughes/Gracia is the ONLY canon pairing in the entire show. They're SO canon, in fact, that it sort of hurts your teeth. XD So in my own head, Hughes is one of those rare Completely Straight Guys in anime/manga, because--well, he's NOT a womanizing flake who's going after every piece of tail to pass his way, which can lead fen to snark about compensating. He's a dedicated and obviously loving family man, whose entire world, really, revolves around two people--his wife, and his daughter. I've seen people throw out ideas for Hughes/Roy, saying that they're FRIENDS, they're closer to equals and understand each other, but ... if they understand each other, erm. Even if Hughes and Gracia have that sort of lovingly open relationship, which I'm sure they would if they were inclined so, he's SO IN LUUUURVE with his wife, I have a hard time picturing the idea of straying even crossing Hughes' mind. Even if it's only temporary.

(Of course, then Chirachirarara suggests to me that maybe if Hughes got the information about Gracia's pregnency over the phone, the first thing he'd do is probably lay a big smacker on the nearest person, and if that JUST SO HAPPENS to be one Mister Roy Mustang, well. So much the better for comedy. XD)

As for Winry/Ed ... those two, I think, are being set up as the typical "pairing" of any shounen--i.e., the main hero and the main heroine. Arakawa does put a lot of hints into the manga, but as Exchan once pointed out, they CAN be taken as just Winry-->the Elrics, because I have no doubts that after her grandmother, Ed and Al are her Most Important People. They're implied and "obvious" in the way all shounen mainpairs are, in my opinion--but at the same time, there's not a whole lot of that romantic banter. Ed DOES freak out and spazz (and reopen stomach wounds, errrr) when people suggest that Winry's his girlfriend, but there's also a distinct sense of just them being FRIENDS, which I like.

(In all honesty, I probably won't gripe much at all if Ed and Winry end up together--I'll just be disappointed, that's all. XD;;;;;)

However, there's the fact that Winry is, in a way Ed's DOCTOR; it may just be for the automail parts of him, but she's obviously got some surgical training, if she could help her grandmother in the installation. The idea of pairing Ed with his doctor-figure leaves some doors open for squick, but maybe that's just me. I don't really see Ed and Winry having the compatible personalities to stay together, however much they crush and flirt in the now. But that goes back to my original assessment of Ed's character--which is to say, he's NOT THE TYPE TO SETTLE DOWN, but if it ever came to that he DID, he'd be utterly and completely miserable, forcing himself to stay. One thing he never wants to do is repeat the sin of his father and abandon his family, so he'd stay in Riezenbul by Winry's side forever, and I think that would make a guy like Ed, who's always so focused and strikes me as someone who loves to learn just for the sheer pleasure of it as much as anything else, just wither away. And eventually it would piss Winry off, to see Ed sacrificing himself in that way for her--it just seems better, in my head, to keep them friends.

... [discreetly hides Winry/Al bias]

Envy/Ed, I can see just because for some reason, I think Envy is more outright of a slut than Lust, despite the oxymoron. XD;; (Lust, it seems to me, embodies more of the way it can control and dominate a person, twisting their views and desires and ambitions; she's sexy but not sexual, somehow. If that makes any sense. :X) I can see it if we want to do the "let's fuck with Hagane no ochibi-chan's brain! :D :D :D" on Envy's part, especially after ep19's brief imitation while snarking about him in the first place. So I guess it depends on how badly you want to mess with Ed--because, seriously, you could easily make an Envy/Ed fic pretty much ANYONE/Ed, what with the shapeshifting and all. :D [dodges]

And if I keep going on much further, I'll have written a freaking novel of a post, so I'll cut here. Hopefully some of you have made it this far, because I'd really like to hear what other people have to say. :D;;

Comments

[miome.livejournal.com]

Agree with most everything you've said here ... personally, I'll read literally any pairing for FMA, because there's not a character in there I don't love (or love to hate).

Actually, my own icon bothers me. ^_^;; I think that RoyxEd can be, and often is, written in character, or at the very least believably. But Roy and Ed would never, never, never in canon have a relationship, and that's ok. That's what fanfic is for, isn't it? To do things you can't do in canon?

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[nekokoban]

I was gonna say, no, there are pairings I won't read, and then I realized that I'd read Miz Coyote's Gluttony/Al and that no, I can't really say that at all, can I? XD;;; Besides which, except for something REALLY out there, I can plausibly see a number of ideas working out, as long as it's done properly.

And, well--I STILL like your icon, if you take it with a grain of snark. [laughs] Sort of an acknowledgement that it COULD work, if it ever happened--it's just very, very, VERY not-likely. XD;;; Roy/Ed CAN be in character; it's just the challenge of believably bringing them together. :D;;;

[tsaiko.livejournal.com]

(Please, if you've gotten into a series just because you saw a "cute couple" in it, don't tell me. I may be forced to cry tears of blood and run away. XD)

Does is count if you've ever gotten into an anime series just so you could identify the characters in the yaoi fanfics you read?

No wait, don't answer that.

I don't understand why some people go nuts over certain pairings. I'm not talking about "They are *so* together" more like the "THEY ARE THE ONE TRUE PAIRING IN THIS SERIES AND YOU ARE A SICKO FOR SUGGESTING IT ANY OTHER WAY." I'm kind of felxible about that. I have no "OTP" because I think that if you are talented and put enough time, thought, and build-up into it you can make just about any pairing beliveable. It just takes looking at things a different way. It's why I don't mind reading the strange pairings, because sometimes you find the really talented authors that way.

Keep in mind, this comes from someone who reads the R/NC-17 fanfics of authors first and then reads the PG/PG-13 stories. If an author can handle something as blunt and difficult to write as sex well, then they can probably handle the finer, more delicate balance of friendship or love or companionship. Or at least, that's my take on it.

There are series where I can see yaoi potential and that's what first hooks me. But that never is what holds my interest. The plot and the characters have to be there. Otherwise, I just go "Oooh. Pretties." and wander away. It sure doesn't inspire me to write fanfiction, and not all my fanfiction is based on yaoi pairings. Most times, it's based on humor.

I have a feeling the FMA writing bug will be hitting soon. ^_^;

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[nekokoban]

Does is count if you've ever gotten into an anime series just so you could identify the characters in the yaoi fanfics you read?

--well, now, THAT depends on how badly you fangirled over said pairing, and how rabid you were in the OMGOTP!11-ness, but judging from what you said after that, I think you're fine. XD It's more along the lines of "OMG! I SAW TWO BOIZ MAKIN OUT I WANNA SEE THIS SERIES" sort of thing. Especially if, uh, they also go on to completely make up things that they CLAIM to be canon, even if they're not. (You're a Digimon fan; I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. >_>)

I will admit, I AM an OTP girl, but I like to think that I base it just as much on the character personalities as I do from the knee-jerk "PRETTY! ♥" factor. That doesn't mean a good writer can really convince me, for the length of a story, that some OTHER pairing will work; I just tend to gravitate towards fics that lean towards my pairings of choice, yanno? Or gen, because damnit, good gen is sometimes harder to find than good smut. XD;;;;

That being said, I HATE rabid OTP people. I mean, I also do that "OMGTHEIRLOVEISSOREAL" thing too, but there's a difference between doing it in dorksessions with friends, kicking around and being silly--and then there are the people who *mean* it. Those people, honestly, they scare me--live and let live being my motto up till the moment I get pissed off. XD;;;

And OMG DU IT COME TO THE DARK SIDE. FMA is a fun fandom to write for, really it is~~~ >D

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[amei.livejournal.com]

Sorry for the one off, but is that Feather I see featured on your icon?? =0

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[tsaiko.livejournal.com]

Why yes, yes it is. I had to actually go look it up because at one time I had two icons with the griffons from Suikoden II and Suikoden III. I couldn't remember right off hand which one I kept and which one I didn't. ^_^;

m o n s t e r r e p l y || o p i n i o n s

[amei.livejournal.com]

G E N R U L E S Y E A H!

To be honest, yeah I find it weird when people watch series for pairings, but each their own. Personally I'm a character person myself, pairings, if any are a bonus. Which is why I think it's pretty strange when people intro themselves they also list their favourite pairings. Is it really needed?

WHO MADE LEE EVIL>? >0

I tend to think Hughes is straighter than....a really straight thing. I can't think of anything to sufficiently express his straightness. But yanno, it takes all things to make the world go round.

Roy/Ed; rad-a-fucking-word amigo. ALL.

I am not adverse to Winly/Ed, (I find them cute if anything), but, it's all about Winly/Al. Imho he needs the love more. Which brings the question, if Ed is someone who can't settle down, and Al should bloody damn well hooks up with Winly, would Ed leave Al? But wait, coherancy is wearing thin. Envy/Ed = ??!!??. But then I follow the anime, due to lack of manga.

I also do not get the point of segregating the community on the base of shipping/genre of fanworks, etc. Seems kinda redundant, really. Ever since LJ ditched it's code-membership rule...In all I'm pretty much all for "each their own", so long as they can differentiate canon from fanon, because really, everyone needs to chill.

Re: m o n s t e r r e p l y || o p i n i o n s

[nekokoban]

Personally, I've NEVER seen the need to tell people what pairings you like, unless you're going into a character/pairing discussion. (Such as when I poked around that het_fma comm and found people debating whether it was Ed/Winry or Al/Winry and at the time EVERYONE was all ED/WINRY ED/WINRY--so I jumped in and made my point known before scuttling off again. :D;;;;) But then again, I don't see much of a reason for intro posts unless you've got something to contribute, so I am working from a bias.

Given that I don't follow Naruto fandom, I don't know if anyone actually HAS tried to villainize Lee. And if it HAS happened, I don't really want to know about it, because I may be forced to do stupid wanky things, like bite their knees off. :D;;;;;; <--Lee-fan, damnit! >:E

Once upon a time, my friends and I came up with a list of Men In Anime That (We Thought) Were Completely Straight. I wish we'd written it down, because damnit, I'd so toss it up and add Hughes' name to the top of that list. >_> (The only one I actually REMEMBER is Spike Spiegel. Other than that, it's been devoured by the Wide Blank Void That Is My Head.)

Winry/Ed IS cute. :O I freely admit this, and I like the idea of them snarking and flirting with each other. But in the end, I still cling steadfast to the hope that she'll look Al's way and they'll be happy and cute together. @_@ And actually, I could see Ed turning into a Hughes-type if Al and Winry get married--they may not be HIS kids, but by good goddamn, THEY'RE HIS BLOOD AND YOU'LL LOOK AT THESE DAMN PICTURES COLONEL IF I HAVE TO STUFF 'EM UP YOUR NOSE >:EEEEEE

... um. So. :D;; (Then again, I also have the idea that Ed would still be a traveling/research alchemist, breezing back into towns to kidnap the kids for a day, spoil 'em rotten, and LET'S GO HARRASS GRANPA ROY OKAY? >DDDDD and therefore Al and Winry would be the home he comes back to. --you can really tell I'm taken by the Winry/Al idea, can't you? >_>;;;)

Envy/Ed is at this point manga-only, and there's not even MUCH of it; it's just the fucked up factor of it that makes it interesting. Like I said, Envy, being a shapeshifter, could make it ANYONE/Ed, should he so desire. :D;;

Segregating fandoms = TEH ANNOYING, YO. >_> I mean, given the huge VOLUME of sheer stuff that's posted on the FMA Comm daily, I don't really have the time/desire/flat-out ENERGY to go slogging through yet another. Which explains my vague bitterness towards that comm, because dude, I like het too! Don't take it away from me just 'cos I ping over Roy/Ed too! >_>

... on the other hand, I do all my fangirling with anyone who stumbles onto my lair, so, enh. I'm just whining 'cos I'm lazy. ♥

[halcyonjazz.livejournal.com]

I find it really amusing that for these types of posts? XD Whether you do it or I do it... we paraphrase our convos a LOT XD XD XD

I ♥ you

Becaust I have no other place/person to ramble TO:

Roy:Ed (the colon pwnz j00): ...yah, ok, NOT HAPPENING. But it's just that... Colonel x Fullmetal/ Roy x Ed dynamic that makes things *interesting*. It also makes things extremely difficult to start off x.x Also? o.o they're the most mutal yaoi couple EVEEEERRR o_o You wouldn't THINK so, but...

Al (<--)--> Winry --> Ed: <--see this? SEE THIS? This is how it is >_>;; While I do have a Winry/Al bias, Elric bros and Winry are also my OT3 ;;;; not in the romantic sense, but because Ed and Al would never leave each other, and Winry is such good friends with the both of them. Al would be the one to take care of her...

In the name of Winry/Ed though? While it can happen.. it'll fall apart really quickly. Unless there's angst. Since angst can draw things out over a long period of time. (the fact people throw away this kind of relationship for the sake of OMG THEY ARE SO KY00T bugs me >_<)

Hughes/Roy: ......no. Just... no. There isn't really any words or a price that can be pinned to the kind of buddybuddy friendship they have. I don't *get* how people automatically translate "friend" in fandom as "(potential) fuckbuddy". And this pairing? Also has the most illogical OOC-age to make them work. It makes teh chirachirarara cry.

Envy/Ed: ...yah. I'm sorry. This pairing is so inherintly fucked up that I can't help but like it (sorta). Unless you try to bring hearts and sparkles into it in a serious way. Then I will have no choice but to hurt you or comit seppuku.

Hughes/Gracia: OMG OTP!1111111 (whoever thinks of breakingt them up should be SHOT >____< No man that sparkles over his own family like that deserves that kind of fandom treatment)

And while I KNOW it wasn't mentioned: Hawkeye/Roy: I dunno... this pairing just won't work? ^^; I mean. I can SEE an interesting and I can see it happening, under some circumstances. But Hawkeye is strictly professional and Roy is way too familiar with her to jeapordize that kind of relationship. (People seem to forget that, uh, BRINGING THIS KIND OF STUFF INTO A FRIENDSHIP IS EXACTLY HOW YOU CAN FUCK IT UP. --; Bitter, no, why do you ask? :D) To paraphrase Sakki-- Roy's a player; but there's a difference between "player" and "fucking everything in the immediate vecinity."

There's a distinct difference between ships and OTP's man. --; I have my OTP's, and I will debate them with you. But if you spit illogical characterization at me I'll go "...uh. no :D"

Just. Please consider the characters, plot and story!!! @___@ Throwing that all away for A + B romance is just... really, really cheap.

And, of course, you heard all this before from last night. So I'll shut up :D

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[nekokoban]

I ♥ you toooooo~ (And I see your single heart, and raise you TWO. With SPARKLIES. XD)

And dude, it's 'cos we hash these debates out hugely and THEN go off and make separate posts about them. XD XD XD Shared brains and all, and if it's a good point or argument, why should it go to waste? [halos]

Which means, naturally, you know my opinions on all the pairings and know I pretty much wholeheartedly agree with you. XD

Though damnit, I DID forget to mention Hawkeye/Roy, didn't I? XD;;;;;;; There was ONE fic, which mentioned the idea of Hawkeye and Roy being on-again/off-again lovers, love with sex without it being ROMANTIC love, and that's really how I can see it working. Seriously, that fic gave me a way to SEE Hawkeye/Roy, though overall, it just messes up the chain of command thing too strongly. >_> Hawkeye is an impeccable follower of rules, and I think both she and Roy have too much respect for each other to consider a relationship that way, very seriously. There's a reason, I think, she refers to him as someone she needs to protect, rather than an "imporant person" or any sort of Japanese euphanism for a loved one. XD;;

There's nothing wrong with occasionally shrieking the illogical, I think; but it depends on whether you're doing it with a friend who knows you're joking, and when you're trying to seriously argue a point, as we should well know. XD

But, sure. GIVE ME PLOT AND CHARACTER, OR GIVE ME NO FANDOM. Something like that. XD

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[halcyonjazz.livejournal.com]

I ♥ you toooooo~ (And I see your single heart, and raise you TWO. With SPARKLIES. XD)

I see your two and sparklies, and raise you four, PINK MANLY sparklies and bubble tea >D

We're just telepathic like that XD XD XD it still amuses me regardless, since 2/3s of what we ramble is paraphrased XDDD

Also, the Hawkeye/Roy thing? I read that fic too. Personally, I didn't see it work in that fic either o_o;; I think it's because the idea of Hawkeye and Roy having an on/off thing also doesn't sit well with me. I dunno Roy and Ed I can see being on/off because it's just that mutal (people THINK Roy is Seishirou and people WRITE Ed as a weepy uke, but really Ed would want nookie just as much. The dynamic with them isn't about dominance, it's about equality. But naturally, there's the skewed view of yaoi, where there HAS to be a seme and there HAS to be an uke, which brings in the whole "I *pwnz* j00r ass". Which is why I like slash better. There is a top and there is a bottom, but that doesn't mean the top is in control.)

Back to Hawkeye/Roy... yah, I don't even see it being an on/off thing. It blurs too many boundaries and sets itself up to crash, hard and fast. Which was why I didn't comment in that fic because it was just off enough that I know I would have pointed it out and I don't feel very confident since I can't even explain it HERE XD;;;

And yes @ the last two paragraphs ♥

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[nekokoban]

I see your two and sparklies, and raise you four, PINK MANLY sparklies and bubble tea >D

Ooooo, playing dirty, then? >D I see your four, your PINK MANLY sparklies and bubble tea, and then raise YOU eight, Sean's Roy!snap, Armstrong's alien symbiote, AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE. ♥♥♥

For some reason, though, that fic DID work with me. :D;; It may be the Hawkeye-as-mother aspect in the fic, but if there was any way Hawkeye/Roy would work for me, it would have to be like that--no comittments, no promises, just occasionally between friends. I've heard stories of that sort of relationship working out, so I think it depends on the people involved. >_> <_< It's okay, though! IT'S GOOD FOR US TO DISAGREE ONCE IN A WHILE, or we just may wake up totally assimilated or something, and that wouldn't be quite as much fun, I think. XD XD XD

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[halcyonjazz.livejournal.com]

Ooooo, playing dirty, then? >D I see your four, your PINK MANLY sparklies and bubble tea, and then raise YOU eight, Sean's Roy!snap, Armstrong's alien symbiote, AND A PARTRIDGE IN A PEAR TREE. ♥♥♥

That's just...that's just PLAIN MEAN Waitotochan! >D It's good to know you're keeping to your evil roots ♥

Well then, FINE. I see to it, and raise you ONE UBER HEART (♥), Armstrong's lucky charm PASSED THROUGHT GENERATION TO GENERATION OF THE ARMSTRONG FAMILY, tare!Ginji and my pizza >D

I *know* that kind of relationship *can* work out... but I don't see Hawkeye as that type of person o_O In theory, that would be ideally how I would agree on it too... but when I think about it, Hawkeye doesn't strike me as a person who would *do* that, and Roy doesn't strike me as a person who would do that with people he *knows* o_O

I may just be saying this because I find it genuinely impossible for that kind of relationship to start between them. That, or I'm not thinking hard enough. (at least with Roy/Ed... ther'es theories and IDEAS and I know where they're *coming* from... but Hawkeye/Roy? I can't even see it being *considered*)

.....that would be a scary thought. What would our name be, if that ever were to happen? :D

[branchandroot]

I'm pretty well with you on all of this. For me, the beauty of the original story has to catch me, and I don't usually think romance is beautiful. (Tamahome and Miaka, case in point; I mean, they're cute, but... geh...) Beauty usually means tension.

Since fic usually means resolving tension (though you seem to like sustaining it instead, which I think way cool), fic gets to do the romance part. For myself, I like resolving it in a bunch of different ways, just to see how it works with different people/pairings/catalysts. I don't really get why anyone would adhere fanatically to just one possibility; it seems like it would get boring.

...you remind me that I wrote something very like this for Digimon. I'd gotten tired of everyone plunging into Deathless Romance when I think the writers went out of their way to emphasize friendship over romance. I think the same can be said for FMA. There's more flirting, for lack of a better term, with sexuality, but the lynchpin of the whole story is something else entirely.

...

And you've done it to me again! The no-sex-bunny was lurking quietly in the wings, waiting for me to finish my outline before pouncing; and now this post has given it an infusion of steroids. *pulls notebook over head* My parents are visiting this weekend, I can't take the whole time off to write like a madwoman... again. *sigh*

*clumps off with bunny attached to ankle*

Re:

[nekokoban]

Given most of the beautiful things I like are those cheesy silly nature things, I tend to think beauty = peace, and as far as I've seen, romance =/= peace. Lovers, you just seem to get all tangled up with the expectations of romance, whereas with friends, there's still that one crucial degree of separation (however wide it is for different people) that makes it, I dunno, easier to relate with people? >_>

Like I said earlier, I AM an OTP-girl, but entirely open to the idea of being convinced, for the length of a fic, that something else might work. Keep the author's pairing-preaching out of it, and I'm golden. [laughs]

And ick, let's not discuss the Digimon fandom unless you don't mind me foaming at the mouth for a bit. XD;;;; I got out before it degenerated too far, I think, but I DO recall being quite frightened by the lengths and depths some people would go, fanging and fighting and snarking over THEIR OTP THEIRS THEIRS THEIRS--when, more than any series except maybe GetBackers, I always thought Digimon was all about FRIENDSHIP. :p (Hey, is my bitterness showing? My bad. XD;;)

Wot, I just like talking. Incessantly, to a degree, even if there's no guarentee of an audience. XD Sometimes, though, people DO listen, and I take no blame nor innocence for whatever they take from me. [halo]

rantrantrant, part I

[calintz.livejournal.com]

This is where I hiss and spit at my ability to write REALLY INCOHERENTLY. ;;; Watch out for utter HUH???

But uhm, first, omg rabu thank you so much for the rant. OwO

Me, I tend to be a canon freak - believe it or not - so my OTPs are boring canon vanilla (HET GASP OMG) stuff like, I don't know, Syaoran+Sakura Van+Hitomi omgtheirluvissoOBVIOUS. And even the not-technically-canon pairings I amuse myself with are, at the very least, hinted at (blatantly, subtly, only in my own bloody head, whatever :D).

... though even that's changing quite a bit omg roy/ed theirluvissoWTF damn you and chira >_> *coughs*

I love HagaRen for what it is - brilliant storytelling, bloody fantastic cast and plot, blah blah BLAH ad nauseum - and honestly, all the pairings could more or less go to hell and you'd still be left with a YUMMY cake without extraneous icing, so to speak. And I'm perfectly /happy/ with that, cos in the end, what makes a series great? The fanon crackpairings born from sick fen minds or the canon crack straight from the horse's own damn mouth? >_> HagaRen in general HAS NO ROMANCE. None. Nada. Zip. (Excluding Hughes and Gracia, naturally, but those two are just so SPECIAL. Oh, right, and Izumi-sensei and her husband XD hahahaha.) HagaRen in general is ALL about loyalty and perseverence and friendship in the LEAST CONTRIVED WAY it's ever possible, at least IMHO.

So if someone asked me why the hell I like Roy/Ed, I'd honestly have a hard time coming up with a good, logical answer. Cos it's Wrong in so many different ways it's amusing? Cos taking their two rather colorful personalities and making them WORK is a fun challenge? Roy/Ed is actually not the most obvious slash pairing in the series, if you think about it - Hughes/Roy (STAB MY EYES OUT /NOW/ PLZ) and Al/Ed (...........) come to mind...

Yes, I know it's not happening. I never /said/ it's happening, and I'm getting mildly tired of explaining to people that I KNOW IT'S NOT HAPPENING. >______> Eriol/Tomoyo is NEVER happening and I still love that pair to crazypieces. Anyway.

I guess the recent influx of Roy/Ed fans is mildly terrifying cos I can't tell who likes it for the crack/challenge/what-have-you factor versus who really, sincerely believes it's like OMG TWOO WUUUB. I mean, c'mon. We're talking about a flaky, ambitious 29 year old colonel and a 15 year old pissy BOY who respects AND utterly resents said colonel at the same time. If anyone even tries to earnestly convince me that Roy/Ed is REALLY REALLY HAPPENING, I'll probably just give them a "............" look and wonder if I'm missing something somewhere. >_>

Going off on a tangent, Hughes/Roy just irritates (yes, IRRITATES) me cos it's so obviously contradicted by canon. (Haha, hypocrisy resurfacing again. I should shut up before my ass is flambed to death. xX) Hughes is a FAMILY MAN. Who FANBOYS HIS WIFE. And WORSHIPS HIS DAUGHTER. Christ, can't two guys be REALLY GOOD FRIENDS who trust each other WITHOUT wanting to get into each other's pants? Do people NOT realize that physical intimacy is a doubled-edged sword that can pull people together OR completely destroy whatever previous relationship they had? >________> Or are people just naive enough to say Hahaha Look They're Good Buddies I Bet They Can Fuck Around And Still Be Buddy-buddy Good Friends Waha? I don't see Hughes 'experimenting' and staying true to his character, and I sure as hell don't see Roy risking the destruction of a loyal friendship by casually screwing his best friend. (That, btw, is another barrier to Roy/ANYONE in my head, whether it's Hawkeye OR Ed OR... ... well. But I'm stepping into Let's Point Our Fingers At The Hypocrite arena again so I'll back out for now.)

Random addition, but Hughes really does fall under the category of UTTERLY PERSONIFIES "PAINFULLY STRAIGHT." Other characters that go on the same list, for me, are... hm... the Bebop guys, Syaoran, Van, Fakir, Kyonkichi...

**OMFG my reply was too long. XDDDDDD Ok, will split. Jeebus.

Re: rantrantrant, part I

[halcyonjazz.livejournal.com]

Fakir? We're talking about ballet-boy here, right?

Sorry, there was some MAJOR UST between him and Mythos in the beginning. XD

Everything else though? ♥ yah

Re: rantrantrant, part I

[calintz.livejournal.com]

*snerk* I actually didn't see it as UST. I think I'm the only person on the face of this earth who didn't see it as UST, just Mythos Being A Retard. O_o;

Re: rantrantrant, part I

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Izumi-sensei & her butcher, OMG OTP!! *^___^*
...married couples are my weakness. One of many. All shows should have a cute married couple. Or two. Hughes/Glacia 4-evah!!!

I also <3 you as a fellow canon bitch; most of my own OTPs are as obvious and absolute as can be (Van/Hitomi! squeee~~! and I've been wanting to see Tsubasa because Shaoran/Sakura are just too too awww...) Some of that might be self-preservation instincts...my clan denial skillz which work so well with char death and the complete ignoring thereof fail me when it comes to pairings, so if a couple gets together in canon I will have a damn hard time denying it, even if it's not the one I wanted. Which might be one of the reasons I'm so un-pairing-oriented for FMA.

And the list of anime straight men would be interesting to see - I nominate Fuyuki Shido and Himura Kenshin (stop looking at me like that. Kenshin is the straightest straight man ever to wear pink and speak with a girl's voice. Guy fights all manner of boys who get their clothes ripped off and never once does one get a single vibe of attraction from him, even despite Sanosuke's crush.)

Re: rantrantrant, part I

[nekokoban]

Shido!

Damnit, why did I forget him? XD Then again, I didn't really "know" him at the time we made the list, but still! Can't comment on Kenshin, though, 'cos, uh, never really got into the series. >_> <_< Apparently, I had the spectacularly bad luck to see ALL THE BAD FILLER anime episodes and not a SINGLE one of plot, so for the moment, I'm quite turned off from the idea of seeing more. XD;;; I love Izumi and her husband. &hearts;&hearts;&hearts; The fact that they're not lovelove maxcute like Hughes and Gracia just sort of balances them out--you gotta love a pair who can rhaphsodize about their unspoken promises right after she's coughed up a quantity of blood. XD

rantrantrant, part II

[calintz.livejournal.com]

I never understood the urge to slash two characters (or pair in the gen sense, WHATEVER ANYTHING) just cos they're PRETTY. Maybe it stems from our culture's tendency to find people fuck-worthy based on physical appearances only, but the key to any pairing, het OR slash, is the character /interaction/. I don't object to crack pairings, obviously - and I really do sometimes feel hypocritical for going OMG WTF over pairings that I don't /prefer/ but other people seem to have a thing for - as long as it can be logically worked out WITHIN THE BOUNDS of what the characters are really LIKE. Take, for example, Winry/Ed. Obviously I don't fang over as much as Winry/Al, but if someone can come up with a way of putting those two together without having them, say, burn each other out AND, more importantly, without them degenerating into a pair of sickeningly goopy teenage raburabu THATSOAIN'THAPPENING... then more power to the author, and I might even be convinced that yes, it could work and it could work /fine/.

My biggest issue with most random pairings is the fact that fen are willing to slash any two males who've had physical contact with each other (and I don't mean contact in /that/ way, I mean contact like OMG VICIOUS JUST SPEARED SPIKE'S SHOULDER ITH TWOOO WUUUUB >_>), or base a pairing off an utter lack of evidence (interaction, okay, INTERACTION), or what have you. Slash for the SAKE of slash is really tired and overdone - hell, not /just/ slash, even het can be contrived and boring if it's tossing two characters together for the sake of shoving them together.

................................................... I, uh, think this reply was like, way too bloody long hahaha omfg. ;;;;;;;;;;;;; *braces self for the flames that are WAITING to happen* >___>

Re: rantrantrant, part II

[amei.livejournal.com]

SPIKE SLASH EXISTS???!?!?!

::coldsweatbreakout::

Re: rantrantrant, part II

[calintz.livejournal.com]

Oh god, you had no idea? O________o;;;;;;;;;;;;; I've seen Spike/Vicious mostly and it makes me absolutely /homicidal/. ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Re: rantrantrant, part II

[nekokoban]

I tell myself I'm a canon freak, but then, occasionally, I totally break with the dogma and pelt in the other direction and cackle MADLY all the while. [whistles, makes cute eyes at sakkimpehi] Come on, you know you love our crack. XD

Personally, if someone asked me to justify liking Roy/Ed--which I sort of did, but not that much?--I'd have to say it's 'COS sometimes, I like a challenge. *snrk* Or because I think it could work with the characters, if not necessarily the context they're in. I still don't understand why Hughes/Roy is more apparent than Roy/Ed, though, because if the former would've crossed my mind at SOME point while I was busy being snarky, the other would've just puttered out and CRASHED before it got anywhere in my head.

... I'll be shot if I admit that I can see Al/Ed before I can see Hughes/Roy, right? [dodges]

But, seriously. I get annoyed when people immediately ping off male friendship (or even contact, as you said) to justify OMGLOVE. While there are times where I can snarkingly say something like about how Roy SO wants into Ed's pants (i.e., my general snarkitude GLEE at episode 13 for a whole variety of reasons, but still XD)--I've never, ever, EVER seen that sort of thing between Hughes and Roy. o_o Compounded to the fact that Hughes IS married, and has a daughter--even if he WAS the sort to "play around" before (and I really sincerely don't think he is x_x), now that Alicia's there, he'd not even THINK about it. All his free time would go to the worship and adoration of his daughter, with no time for casual fuckbuddies, yo. >_>

I mean, if I can toss out a relationship I personally see as very similar to Roy and Ed, but with no slashy dynamic at all (except for occasional snarking passages, and one gagfic my friend wrote)--Vetinari and Vimes, from the Discworld books. Their situations are markedly different, but that doesn't change that Vimes does and doesn't trust Vetinari, and that Vetinari often seems to be amusing himself with the game of "what would Vimes do if I made him do this?" Actually, that's sorta how I see older!Roy and Ed. ("Was that a good 'sir' or a bad 'sir'?" "That was a 'sir,' sir.")

Contrived pairings of ANY sort make my head hurt. =_= I'm willing to take anything with a grain of salt, but the fact of the matter is that I'm really not interested in stories that throw two random characters romantically together, for whatever the reason. It's good to be *unique*, but I'll back out of the WTFbizarre, kthx. You seem to be flame-safe, thus far♥

--and, uh, not to contradict too much, but didn't Syaoran have something of a crush on Yukito? I vaguely remember? But seeing as I don't KNOW CCS that well, I should really not say? :D;;;;;;;

Re: rantrantrant, part II

[calintz.livejournal.com]

I'd semi-intelligently reply to your comments but you hit all the good points and my brain is utterly shot at this point, so. <3

--and, uh, not to contradict too much, but didn't Syaoran have something of a crush on Yukito? I vaguely remember? But seeing as I don't KNOW CCS that well, I should really not say? :D;;;;;;;

He sort of did. Okay, he did. But the canon explanation for that is attraction of power - specifically, Yukito being Yue's false form and Yue and Syaoran both using the moon as the base? source? of their power, it wasn't so much a I REALLY HAVE A CRUSH ON TSUKISHIRO-SAN as I'M SUBCONSCIOUSLY PINGING OFF HIS POWER BUT I DON'T KNOW IT SO IT LOOKS LIKE A CRUSH. ............. Or so Yue himself says.

>D It's really VERY amusing to see bloody /everybody/ meddle with poor Syaoran-kun's love life. Insert Yue lecturing him and Tomoyo making him sputter and Touya giving him hell. Etc etc etc. [/fangirl]

BTW, there's a song by Blur titled 'Cowboy song'. I'm so uploading it and you're so downloading it. [/totally unrelated bahahaha]

[the-tower.livejournal.com]

It never fails to amaze me how well you put these things into words, and just how much I agree with you (XD; I've always been too lazy to voice these issues, or even have the ability to be able to present them well).

FMA IS absolutely one of the best stories I've read/watched in a long time, non-anime inclusive. I was originally curious because someone that I followed on LJ repeatedly fangirled over RoyxEd, and so I started watching the series, and found myself totally absorbed by the plot and the characters and actually not really seeing the RoyxEd, or any other pairing (except Hughes and wife, of course XD;;). I admire that a story can be so grounded on a devoted brotherly relationship, and it squicks and annoys me that people will slash those two, or slash anything that moves in the series because 'they look so cute together!!!111!!' With this series, I ENJOY that the female characters kick ass and that they don't need some male character to support them. They're none of them like Miaka, after all. With regards to the brothers, their relationship is actually one of the main reasons I absolutely adore this series for itself, because sibling relationships are really important to me, and too many real life siblings don't get along and that just boggles me because sibling relationships can be one of the most intimate relationships out there, so I really like that this series exemplifies that.

The issue that you addressed, about the fandom and such, is one of the main reasons that I packed up and left the FMA community. I just wanted to enjoy the story for what it is, canonically, rather than reading everyday about the evergrowing number of pairings possible and supported by the fans (because, really, the story is not about that at all), and basically a lot of fanon stuff that has nothing to do with the canon itself.

:D XD;; and I'm actually writing this reply AS I'm reading your rant, and I was just about to say something about Winry and the Elrics and that Ed has so much drive that he's not going to settle down if and when he restores himself, like Al possibly might, but he's going to keep going and do more things and not stay around, so it won't really work out if Winry wanted to marry Ed or something, and I'm of the opinion that Winry and Ed are just, well, crushes, because of who they are to each other, but in the end it will be ONLY crushes, and nothing solidly romantic can really develop. BUT THEN, I read further and realized you said most of that already, with better articulation, too. XDXD;;

Envy/Ed is not something I understand yet, since I don't have access to more of the manga or anime. So, I'll leave that particular time-bomb alone.

^^;; this wasn't meant to be that long, actually, but, oh well.

Ahh, on a random note, a friend of mine was getting into YYH and I offered to dig up good fics for her supporting Kurama/Hiei, and of course I thought of you first, but I checked your page and I think a link or two is broken? Specifically the story "Echoes", I think, and I'm not sure I've ever read that one. (pleeease let it not be one of those stories you don't want to appear on the net, because it sounds interesting...)

Re:

[nekokoban]

HAWKEYE FOR FUHRER! [shot] Though, seriously, I'm of the opinion Roy couldn't have gotten half as far, half as fast as he DID if Hawkeye was not there, backing him up every step of the way; you can almost juggle it as a role-reversal, because while Roy is certainly very competent on his own, I don't think he could stand as well on his own as Hawkeye could.

Really, these days, I just skim the FMA Comm--because occasionally good or interesting things come out of it. (Hahaha, why does this sound suspiciously similar to FFnet? I think sometimes I'm just masochistic. :D;;;) The het comm had an interesting discussion, but I was saddened by the amount of YAY HET SAP! from the people there. ^^;;;; I mean, awright, give me any fic if it's well-written, right? But I saw the words "sap" in the same sentence as "a Roy/Riza fic," and I immediately did a one-eighty and hightailed it out.

<--thinks the sappiest Roy will ever get is similar to when he was fanboying over dogs

I can see Ed and Winry burning each other out, to the point where what once WAS a fun snarking fighting relationship would just be bothersome and tiring to maintain. If we take Ed's personality as a parallel to Roy, we see that Ed doesn't really do that well with people who are too like him--he'll respect them, maybe, but it takes a lot to LIKE them. And as Sakkimephi said, the moment Winry/Ed degenerates into goopy sap, I'm SO out of there, because frankly? SO not how I see either of those two acting.

Envy/Ed = messing with Ed. To the nth degree.

And, uh, yeah--I know the "Echoes" link is broken, I just keep either forgetting to fix it, or not having the TIME to. x_x Catch me on AIM some night and kick me until I go fix it, okay? XD;;;

Re:

[the-tower.livejournal.com]

Gooey sap just doesn't work for most of the characters in FMA.

And yes, Hawkeye should be Fuhrer! *dodges* She's so reliable~ Roy can get a little cocky sometimes.

Oh, I will so kick you until you get the link fixed; I really am interested in the fic, now. (XD; *kicks self for not having read ALL of WhiteCat's YYH writings*)

[angrybabble.livejournal.com]

I, I guess I don't have a lot to contribute, I just wanted to say... yeah! I'm a MASSIVE fan of friendship. Except in cases where the het romance is just too adorable (Sakura/Shaoran or whatever), I tend to gravitate to friendship. IMHO, romance should grow out of friendship. Friendship (even if it does not lead to hot sex) is a theme I love to write and read about. It makes me sparkle like nothing else. Pretty much all my favorite pairings in any given series are best friends. Het, yaoi, yuri, whatever, it's the people who honestly enjoy one another's company with no other agenda (like "you're so hot" or "I'm horny" or "my biological clock is ticking") who I want to see stay together, however that happens.

I'm also madly fond of brothers or siblings in general... I think it's because I have no siblings, and I always wanted protective, fun older brothers SO BADLY that it hurts, so when I see siblings, or a sibling-like relationship between people who aren't related, I get all sparkly. ^^;

I also don't see the point of segregating communities, I guess. I like het, I like yaoi, yuri really depends on the pairing, I enjoy fics with NO PAIRINGS AT ALL, character studies, things with actual plots, you name it... if it doesn't suck I'll probably like it. And I agree that when people find some pairing they like, they'll twist the characters to make the pairing work if they have to. Or just because they want to. I really don't get it. Like, I especially hate when there are two masculine characters, and one gets turned into a crying girl so the other one can confort him. It bugs the shit out of me not only to see these masculine/feminine relationship stereotypes perpetuated, but also because at least one if not both characters are wildly OOC. It makes me go, "Why do they do this?! Why don't they just go for a het pairing if het's what they want?! Or why not find a canon where there IS a crying, wussy, feminine man so that the fics will be in-character?" Any kind of extreme OOC bothers me, but that's the most common and most obvious, I think. Other than the trend of making badass, quiet, grumpy types into loving, sensitive, affectionate men. What the hell?

As for FMA, I admit that I watch it and while Roy x Ed kind of amuses me for "that's funny & kind of hot" reasons, the only pairing I've gotten out of it so far is probably Ed (or Al, okay XD) x Winry. More Ed though, gotta admit. XD Though I've read cute Al/Winry fics. But, since she doesn't appear all that often as far as I've got (which is to ep 15 or something), romance is pretty much the last thing on my mind when I watch this series. I just like it for the story. ^^; I kind of want to write a fic about Ed and Al sitting at the campfire in the ED, but that's about it... other than my (still to be finished!) badfic, I don't have any pairingfic ideas at all. I wish I was a better writer so I could write down some of the other things I think of, though. But I caaaaaan't. T____T Meep~

Re:

[nekokoban]

Waugh, Ka, you LIVE! :O :O :O

Yeah, I will definitely admit a weakness for a sibling relationship in anything I watch--because dude, I'm an only child too, and sometimes I wish I had a close enough sibling for me to get along with and relate to. I mean, I know a lot of people who don't get along with their siblings, but my entire family's pretty mellow; I could've done well with a sib, I'm sure of it. [wibbles] --which is probably WHY Ed and Al's relationship is my favorite in FMA.

Seriously--I remember someone once suggesting making an FMA yaoi comm, and it got axed because the general consensus was that there was no need to segregate the fandom, because it was a general comm, and people should be able to post there freely, right? ... and now they've just gone and made a het one, which to me, defeats the point of sticking together as a cohesive community. Eh, maybe I'm idealistic.

The sheer pointlessness of twisting a character to fit YOUR PAIRING just boggles me. There's so many series out there, it shouldn't be hard at all to find something where there are characters already slanted along those lines; and like you said, if they want a crying girlyboy, it should in theory be easier to just fan over a series that HAS one, in canon. >_> (Then again, in one of the omake comics, it's been revealed that Scar has a squishy girly love of cats. So there.)

Winry/Ed is shaping up to be the Likely Shounen Hero Pairing, in my book. Which means that yeah, I can see it easily enough, I just PREFER Winry/Al. Because, uh, your giant suits of armor need TEH LURVE too! :O

Meepmeep, don't let your insecurities drag you down! :O :O U CAN DU IIIIIT! .... mainly because damnit, I want to see this badfic and see what kind of responses it'll engender when it finally gets posted. XD

Re: siblings

[(Anonymous)]

Uhh, hey, just from personal experience: siblings are great to have around in a crisis, but on a day-to-day basis /everybody/ fights with their sibs. IMHO, you're better off having really close friends, because as the saying goes, you can choose your friends, not your relatives.

I have three brothers, one older and two younger, and I can tell you for a fact that Ed and Al get along /remarkably/ well for kids that age, and it's probably because they have had to pretty much look after each other since their mother died (and who the hell leaves a ten-year-old and an eleven-year-old in a house on their own anyway????). Plus they have the whole angst/guilt thing going on, and they're /really/ focussed. So, yeah, if you actually had siblings, you'd probably find you get on better once you've moved out anyway :)

comments too long O_o;; PART 1 heheh.

[k-littlebraver.livejournal.com]

Hey, so glad to have you on friendlist. It's not often you read an indepth discussion like this =)
Here're a few things I'd like to say while reading your view, in rambling point form (as English is not my first language ^^; so yeah, I hope I hadn't misinterpreted your view too ^^) -

- Just like you, the story/content/characters/quality come first when I read any series. I tend to prefer the original manga, and view the anime's adaptation as a "different" series, or an interpretation/ modification (for industry $ purposes) of the original. Some anime adaptation enhanced the original (albeit too "polished" and often wiped away the raw ness of the original). Where as some just changed the flavour. Eg: GetBackers manga (fanboys oriented) vs GetBackers anime (fangirls oriented), although the nature of Ban and Ginji friendship remained the same. Right, steer back to topic - FMA's just that - story/contents/background with quality, characters that make you care.

- Friendships. Totally agreed. Friendships are more important and long lasting than fuckships. Also the "same believes/ideals"-ship or whatever the terminology, where two persons vibing in terms of sharing the same goal, striving for the same goal, supporting each other to towards the same goal in life. Or "intellectual"-vibe? Where scholars/scientists/artists/philosophers have that certain "click"-ness when they're discussing certain subjects. Sex is not everything in life. And I view most of these other "vibes" (please pardon my lack of english vocabs ^^;) can connect two or a group of people than mere sex. This is also another reason why I waaaaaaaaay preper shounen manga than shoujo manga, because in shounen you see a group of friends/companions supporting each other fighting obstable to achieve a goal. Where as shoujo mainly consist of oh crushes oh datings oh torn between triangles oh which boys to choose blahblahblah *shudders* Right. Off topic again.

- Relationships and "pairings". It depends on how your define pairings. While reading your view, it seemed to me that you viewed friendships to be very important, but then you started critisizing the likes of "pairings" of Hughe and Roy, or not even mentioning Roy and Hawkeye. And then I realized may be you defined "pairings" as fuckships.
a) Ed and Al. Yes, the series's mainly about their relationships. But NOT fuckships. Re fuckships (or OTP whatever, another questions: Why can't OTP be a relationship of siblings or friends, WITHOUT sex?), and yes back to fuckships, the ONLY ONE I see in cannon FMA would be Hughes and Gracia. The rest is just fanon. I can say I like the relationship of Ed and Al in this series, doesn't mean I'm seeing them fucking like bunnies.

b) Winry with Ed or Al or threesome. Why CAN'T that be a FRIENDSHIP "pairing" or "threesome". And I stressed on the NON-fuckship. 'cause heck, if you want to stick with canon and in character, there're no fuckship rather than Hughes and his wife. Then again maybe it's a test-tube baby because I just can't find any sex scene in the series to support that. See how far and how strict you'd like to follow. Fanon's for imaginations and interpretations. As for Winry marrying to any one of them, that's in the future. No one knows. Winry could be marry off with some other person, or not married at all, she's independant and strong enough. WHY DO WOMEN NEED TO GET MARRIED? Right, off topic. So yeah, /anything/ else is fanon.

TO BE CONTINUED...

PART2 - Re: comments too long O_o;; heheh.

[k-littlebraver.livejournal.com]

... CONTINUED FROM PART 1 -

c) Roy and Ed. No fuckship. But interesting and entertaining "pairing". I still like to see fanwork of them snarking at each other, 'cause that's entertaining. In that case can I call myself a RoyEd fan? Not in /that/ way of course.

d) Hughes and Roy. FRIENDSHIP. Not fuckship. Can I "ship" Hughes/Roy FRIENDSHIP-"pairing" without reading/seeing them fucking?

e) Hughes and Gracia. Husband and wife. Yeah.

f) Roy and Hawkeye. Fuckship or not (obviously not, according to the canon), it's great work-relationship or companionship. Sort of like Mulder and Scully (of X-files) - great relatiobship/tension, and you have the straight-laced Scully, following rules and logic; against her volatile partner, Mulder. They never got to touch each other during most of the entire series, but they're my FAVOURITE kind of relationship. I'm seeing Roy and Hawkeye in a similar way, but of course different too. You get the idea. Stressing again, Roy can fuck his different dates everynight (which we never see in the manga) and is a flakey womaniser. But Hawkeye's still the closest woman to him, I see their companionship 10000000000% more solid than the casual fuckship. They're both very important (up to your individual interpretation again) to each other and have trust in each other (Hawkeye protects Roy for a reason). You don't see many of the so-called "canon"-fanon pairings have strong (yet subtle) relationship like that. It's rather hypocritical if non-sexual relationships are important to you but at the same time snubbing a "pairing" because you don't see the sexual chemistry between them. =)

Canon and Fanon - If you like to be 100% in character, DON'T follow fanon and fandom AT ALL. Because the nature of fanon, no matter how "in character" the fanwork are, they're still fanwork, fan's own interpretation, which did not happen in the original series (hey, you can say the anime is a fanon of the manga). If you want something 100% in character, please just stick with manga. In fanon, if one wants to look into relationships (NOT necessary fuckship), "pairings" are created - fanfic/fanart etc. all for fun. I love the relationship of Roy and Hawkeye (own interpretation, please see above), so I can have a little fun in drawing them in situations that WON'T occur in the manga, have a slight alternate universe, 'cause hey, it's fanon afterall. Although I do understand where you're coming from, re rabib fans whose sole purpose is to slash two characs that look "pretty" together, or anyone under the sun; which is not my cup of tea.. of course, if you make those into a joke/baka-fics or something, thay can be highly entertaining and hilarious. Anyway, it's their play-ground too. If you don't subscribe to their views, don't have to play with them =)

Hope my english makes sense and not offensive O_o although the f@#^ word was used a lot, wait, frienship =D;

Re: PART2 - Re: comments too long O_o;; heheh.

[nekokoban]

[grins] Hey, I'm all for comments and discussion, and you didn't do so badly. ^_^ Really! (But, am combining two replies to what'll hopefully be one. Just so I can save some space. XD)

I know I forgot to mention Hawkeye/Roy, which sort of had me kicking myself when Chirachirarara pointed it out--in essence, man, they're SO TOTALLY NOT GONNA HAPPEN EITHER, but I would love it if they did, if that makes any sense. :D;; I think it's not likely for the same general reasons Roy/Ed won't--because neither of them would compromise a friendship AND a solid important working relationship--but it COULD WORK, could they overcome those obstacles. I definitely agree that Roy can play around all he likes, but regardless, no woman will ever be more important to him than Hawkeye; after Hughes, she's the one person he'll trust with all his secrets, even if that's the extent of their relationship.

Then again, I so totally think Hawkeye can do better than Roy, but that's just me. XD

When I use the word "pairings," I mean it in the romantic sense. Friendships can be pairs, and certainly Hughes and Roy are a very important one--it's just that my knee-jerk reaction to the words "pairings" or "'ships" is to think of lovelove relationships, because that's how I've always seen them used. You're welcome to ship them as friends all you like; it's just that I personally will find different vocabulary for it. (But yeah, I am all for the WOO FRIENDSHIP LET THEM JUST BE DUMB DRINKING BUDDIES YEAH!)

Hey, I'm a fancreator too; I know the dangers of getting into fandom. ^_^ Seriously, I DO try to avoid the branches I know will piss me off, and the people whose characterizations don't seem right to me--but it's all a matter of trial and error, and I like playing around too much in fandom to ditch it. [grins] There's never any fan-made thing that'll be 100% in-character, but I think there are degrees of characterization, so I just go to find the part that suits me best. ^_^

... well, okay, that and I'm lazy. Usually it's the extreme form of character manglement that makes me twitch, and thus far in FMA fandom, I've not seen that in fics/art. ^_^

[vikki.livejournal.com]

I already cheerfully ganked away my pairing thing, but suffice to say that I am totally with you. Smutfic I've written nonwithstanding, I have a damned hard time writing romance, or even fluffy WAFF stuff between two characters, because it's just the interaction that kills me, that makes me want to read/watch more and more and more. (skipping straight to the sex doesn't phase me. How they got there, though, that's hard. XD)

Erm, lessee. Re: Ed and Al - anything about these two just makes me squee, some recent spoilers nonwithstanding, because their relationship goes deeper than words can say, then time can tell, than I really can fathom. Slash for it might squick me a little, but if it's well-written I might be willing to bite into it anyway. ^__^;; They're just ... wow. *marvels at the brotherly love*

The only feasible romantic relationships are between Al and Winly or Ed and Winly, and I don't think that currently Ed would be at all happy settling down with Winly, as you said. In fact, I think that there's a really good chance he *won't* settle down, because also as you said, he's deathly afraid of repeating his father's mistakes. Al, on the other hand ... he could settle down with Winly and be happy, probably, but he'd have to know for sure that Ed would be okay first. Neither man nor woman could drive the brothers apart. Their first loyalties are to each other, and then to themselves.

... I could gush about Ed and Al all day, as you can see. ^^;; But instead I'll just ask you if it's okay if I friend you? ^_^;

~~Vikki

Re:

[nekokoban]

Ahahahaha, you're the opposite of me--I can deal JUST FINE with the interactions and balances; that's the part I LIKE to write. But I owe a Certain Someone smut, and I've got no idea how I'm supposed to pull that off. Geh. XD

For the Elric brothers, I'm ten thousand percent behind the idea that the brother is THE most important person, then Winry, and then Pinako, too. I'd almost like to dare someone to TRY and convince me one would really leave the other to facilitate a romance, but I'm afraid to see what the results would be. XD;;;;

Hell, my best-case scenario for an ending is Al and Winry hoooking up, while Ed remains a wandering soul kind of alchemist (because I can see him mellowing, but still not *settling down*), traipsing around the countryside, with a warm family always there waiting for him. ♥♥♥ ... and then he'd be just as bad as Hughes in bragging about them and all LET'S HARRASS THE NICE MILITARY PEOPLE OH *LOOK* THERE'S GRANPA ROY LET'S GO SAY HI. >DDDDDDDDD

Sure, I don't mind being friended! ^_^ I'm badly lazy about catching up with my friending/non-friending, and I don't post here that often, but if it pleases you, go right ahead. :D

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

OMG too many comments takes forever to read this post - but happy happy happy because I AM NOT ALONE. <3 y'all much.

Been pulling out of the FMA fandom...not teh mad crazy love for FMA, but the more I see of the animanga, the more I adore the story, and the less interest I have in...well, fic in general, but that's my own issues, I like some stories in pure form only.

I've always been a friendship over romance fan. For a long time I didn't like slash at all; that's changed, but not as much as it might've. Sigh. There was that time there that I thought I could be a normal yaoi fangirl - between GB and Saiyuki, I was all sparkly OTP RABURABU HOT BOYS ON BOYS WHEE~!!

And then I got into FMA, and I'm back to melting over brothers willing to die or worse for their brothers. Totally with you in that Ed & Al is my OTR - one true relationship, what I love most in FMA (amidst the fantastic story and unbelievably cool femmes and stunning animation, etc, etc) But not slash there (sibling slash is one of my biggest squicks, probably because I have a bro and sis myself and we're irritatingly, impossibly close, and the idea of that love being...umm...*brrr*)

There are pairings I enjoy in FMA - I am so in love with the femmes that I want the ladies to get some action, which means I'm the rare fangirl to "eh" Roy/Ed while cooing over Roy/Hawkeye, tho' I can't see it as a happily ever after married w/ children situation - and Al/Winry, which I totally CAN, and will be a bit sad if it doesn't happen. But no matter how any pairings turn out in canon, I doubt it could impact my love for FMA. (as opposed to, say, GB, in which Ban running off with Himiko would make me sob like a baby) I'm a canon ho'; with rare exceptions, what's good enough for the creators is good enough for me.

FMA's fan pairings aren't bothering me all that much; as I mentioned I'm not interested in fic anyway. (Now, One Piece, for which I'm dying to read some good IC gen h/c, and none exists...that's getting to me.) But it'd be nice if there were more gen fans into anime in general. It's not that I'm against yaoi, or het...but there's so many other aspects of love that can be even more intense and fascinating as the physical.

Re:

[vikki.livejournal.com]

ARGH yes, the OP fandom ... *goes to cry in a corner*

There's some very nice work by icka that is gen One Piece fic, and a few other little things I've seen here and there ... but ah well. >__>

Good luck!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

All I've seen is her drabbles - which were great, but...drabbles! too short!

...there will be some ridiculous OP sort-of-angst-stuff showing up on ff.net very shortly, prob this weekend; I can't vouch for quality but it'll be totally gen...

Re:

[calintz.livejournal.com]

It's not that I'm against yaoi, or het...but there's so many other aspects of love that can be even more intense and fascinating as the physical.

Oh, god. THANK YOU. Amen PREACH it sistah yeah absolutely.

Re:

[nekokoban]

To tell the truth, I was vaguely surprised by the HUGE AMOUNT OF REPLIES this post's generated. :D;;; People DO read this thing after all, huh. XD

I'd like to take the higher road and say I can withdraw from fandom just because I'm so in love with the story and CANON, but ... nah, I'm weak; I have too much fun mucking around in fandom. Plus, J-art has totally and incurably WARPED MY BRAIN, so really, just color me involved. I've got the brainset that says "man, I love this story and these characters SO MUCH, I want friggin moremoreMORE, gimme!" which is selfish, but eh--as long as there's a producing fandom, I got nothing to complain about. [grins]

And you know, I DO love all the chicks in the series; even Lust, who's completely NEVER been my type of character--villains rarely tend to interest or appeal to me--has gotten her moments of OMG SHE'S SO COOL *_* from me. [laughs] The thing about Hawkeye/Roy is, as I've said before, she can do a lot better than Mister Flaky Womanizer Roy Mustang, though who would be cool enough for Liza Hawkeye, I've got no bloody idea. *snrk* I should go back and edit the post, because I'm annoyed with myself for somehow leaving the Hawkeye/Roy thing out. >_>

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To tell the truth, I was vaguely surprised by the HUGE AMOUNT OF REPLIES this post's generated. :D;;; People DO read this thing after all, huh. XD

I'd like to take the higher road and say I can withdraw from fandom just because I'm so in love with the story and CANON, but ... nah, I'm weak; I have too much fun mucking around in fandom. Plus, J-art has totally and incurably WARPED MY BRAIN, so really, just color me involved. I've got the brainset that says "man, I love this story and these characters SO MUCH, I want friggin moremoreMORE, gimme!" which is selfish, but eh--as long as there's a producing fandom, I got nothing to complain about. [grins]

And you know, I DO love all the chicks in the series; even Lust, who's completely NEVER been my type of character--villains rarely tend to interest or appeal to me--has gotten her moments of OMG SHE'S SO COOL *_* from me. [laughs] The thing about Hawkeye/Roy is, as I've said before, she can do a lot better than Mister Flaky Womanizer Roy Mustang, though who would be cool enough for Liza Hawkeye, I've got no bloody idea. *snrk* I should go back and edit the post, because I'm annoyed with myself for somehow leaving the Hawkeye/Roy thing out. >_> <_<

Ban running off with Himiko = total negation of what the series has been trying to tell us thus far about his character. >:E What happened to stick by your <s>Ginji</s> friends through thick and thin, and that you've changed so you're not such a lone wolf traitor? If Ban could leave Ginji, that doesn't bode well for whatever relationship he builds with Himiko. >_> <_<

And as I STILL haven't seen One Piece, though N-chan fangs about it at me whenever I talk to her, I'll keep quiet on that. XD But I wish you luck in finding decent fic! &hearts;

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I find Lust disturbingly attractive. As is totally appropriate. & I like her furry coat. & I think her torturing Roy is hot...eheh...(all chira-chanchan's fault. but then isn't everything?)

I have two types of fandom - type A is the kind I adore so much I can't get enough of the chars and must fic & art & all; type B is the kind I adore so much that anything that isn't "real", canon, feels cheap to me. (guess there's also type C, which would be those I enjoy but not enough to bother seeking fic or anything for) There's broad parameters that determine which anything falls into; FMA teeters toward B, because it's so damn perfect as is...

I actually agree Liza's too good for Roy, but I also think she's got a thing for him, more than just a mothering complex, so...can't decide who you love, after all. And Roy might grow up a bit; 29's not that old.

Ban is not gonna run off with Himiko, 'twas just a passing example. I have faith in A&A-sensei's self-preservation instincts ^^

And One Piece is one reason I've not been as active anywhere of late, 'cuz I find it difficult to fan for more than, uh, 5 minutes, without mentioning PIRATES. When in the throes of such obsession I'm very...obsessive...

Re:

[halcyonjazz.livejournal.com]

The idea of Roy breeding makes me cry and run for the hills.

Roy should not be a father.

Ever.

Please.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

But wouldn't he & Hughes have such cute babies? ^___^

...him and Lust? Oooh! Maybe him and Scar...and Scar is tall enough to top...

...how come Scar doesn't get any pairing action, anyway? Red-eyed total flippin' psychos need some lovin' too!

Re:

[halcyonjazz.livejournal.com]

*FANGS* do you WANT me to find out how those pairings will work?

I managed to get someone to write Scar/Winly *GRIN* So? Wanna hear about it? >D

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

*X-parrot hides in corner* n-no....I believe you...

...actually I am a little surprised Scar doesn't get more attention. Am I the only one to find him teh sexxxy? in that gorey, 'oh look he exploded someone again' way.

Re:

[halcyonjazz.livejournal.com]

*FANGS J00* >D

He's only sexy in the anime. He's also so extremely cliché it kinda hurts me :D;;

[(Anonymous)]

Mostly I think people find him kind of intimidating and hard to write. After all, he's just nuts, and really, what can you do with him? He's on a Mission, and he's got his dead brother's arm, and why doesn't anybody else think this habit of attaching people's limbs to other peope is creepy? I mean look at Wrath. Anyway, if you really go in for red-eyed total flippin' psychos, have you looked at Hellsing? And if you prefer the 'you're an abomination against God I'm going to kill you' type, they've got one of those too :)